Darkpaw: Please stealth nerf charm just before new TLPs launch

Honestly, just because I would laugh my absolute butt off at the sudden nerdrage and mass outrage on Forum Quest... I support this. Completely ruin every single pre-made groups plans. God, the tears would be delicious.

Calling someone a dbag is also against the board rules.

Also, no one needs a writeup on why charm is overpowered. That would be a waste of human life to put together.

Some things need to be said 1,000 times for DPG to take a hint. Gold star for everyone who makes a thread about nerfing enchanters, in my opinion.

You post like this and you'll still accept the free group carry + power leveling from a decent enchanter xD.

then it's a good thing I didn't call him a dbag huh? ;-) reading skill comprehension...

and I didn't tell him to make a writeup about charm, I told him to do it about HIS class that he feels so underpowered that he cries out to nerf another class, again reading skill comprehension... I know this stuff is hard but come on already

The point i'm making is that in charms current radically OP state, not having it makes a group feel bad, because relatively you're much weaker.

If no one had it then it wouldn't feel bad not having it.

If you're able to play MMO's knowing you're doing way worse than others, and still have fun, well bravo. I'm kinda jealous frankly.

It's kinda similar to people who can play dps classes that do much less dps than the top classes, and still have fun. It just feels pointless to me if i'm doing 60% of the top dps, if im not bringing any unique utility, of course.

Ya, being insanely OP is fun, but it's unhealthy for an MMO.

*nods*

"21 years & counting" laughs in your face.

So....bring everyones group dps up to enchanter level? I hope you realize how problematic that would be, and how impossible given their resources.

Nerfs suck, but they are often the right choice in game development. You speak of comprehension but seem to have very little in this regard.

Anything meaningful to say? Just because something has been a certain way for a long time does not make it correct or good.

Why certainly:

The game is balanced for the max level, once upon a time long, long ago 50 was the max level, it no longer is.

And that makes balance meaningless on TLPs? You're welcome to that opinion of course, but I strongly disagree.

My "favorite" part of this problem is every TLP i've played on we'll have something rediculous like 11 enchanters in raids in classic, and 2 months later all but 2 or so of them quit or reroll. Because playing an enchanter in raids is often nothing like they are in a group.

Ever consider that they did so when 50 was the max level & that it was intended to be that way, so if it is that way now it is still intended?

With all of the changes to the game Melee DPS is actually a lot better on TLP now than it used to be on live in-era so the gap was already closed by quite a large amount - it is why they had to put MoTM into the TLP game.

Fact is when the class was built Charm was a very very risky thing, especially with corpse runs being de rigeur, while the corpse runs are now a thing of the past & the players are now usually quite experience or well-tutored so they know the ways to minimise that high-risk gameplay I don't hold out much hope of the devs seeing this in a sympathetic way. The problem is dealt with over time & by 70 Enchanters often swap classes or quit as by then they are buff bots & basically useless until they get re-tuned in the 80+ game & the content adjusts so that they are needed on raids.

Like I said, if you think enchanters being busted op in groups for 1.5 years every TLP is ok, it's your right to have that opinion. I don't share it.

What they need to do is nerf charm, and compensate them in a way that helps them in raids. Let them do decent dps in raids when there is nothing else for them to do.

I'm just so tired of having to include an enchanter in every box setup, or every group, because they are so busted. I'm far from alone on this.

Ya lets nerf good ole enchanter pets, how much more can they mess it up? After last one i thought they got better . lol

Enchanters are strong without charm, disable it. I too am tired of getting power leveled by an enchanter while they charm a rock golem and solo all of hole.

Were Enchanters OP in classic on live?

Did you start playing on a TLP to relive the classic Experience?

There's a big disconnect going on here.

The thing that changed most is that player knowledge of what the classes do & the ability to see how powerful they really are with a good parser is now shining a light on what used to be unknown quantities.

It's not the game that got old, its you, your expectations changed & you no longer wish to accept the game as it was even with all of the QoL improvements you want more - change it too much & you really aren't playing a TLP experience at all are you?

Something should be done about monks too, maybe remove double attack from them

There is no disconnect, we're discussing TLP balance. You're the one who keeps bringing up how it was in the past when it is irrelevant to the discussion.

If I wasn't clear, i'm discussing how immensely OP enchanters are classic through GoD in the group game on TLPs. This is a fact. Weather it is harmful or not is open to discussion.

And I am saying the disconnect is exactly that observation.

They were Seriously OP on live, way more so than they are on TLP, in fact all of the casters would leave melee DPS in the dust back then & Monks were absolutely nowhere near how insanely good they are on TLP when the live game was in classic.

The gap you perceive was a whole lot worse on live, the gap is nothing like as big on TLP, already moves have made the classes closer on TLP than they were on live but player knowledge monkeys around with that because players are now far more knowledgeable & way more experienced than they were back then...power creep for any class is not just from the game itself but the players too.

Would you propose mind-wiping Monks & Enchanter players?

The ship sailed.

Again i'm confused why you're bringing in other eras of the game into the discussion.

I *don't care* that the gap used to be worse, i'm talking about the present.

We're just going in circles around eachother, and im not quite certain why. Frankly i'm typing these things more so hoping that the devs will read them, not so much to convince player #100329838 that something needs to change.
I'm glad to discuss that with other fellow players of course, but I guess there is some disconnect between myself and you that i'm having trouble understanding.

If you could explain why "how things used to be" is relevant to balance on current TLPs, that may help. Keeping in mind I already said just because something has been a certain way for a long time does not make it good or correct. Also let's assume that enchanters utilizing charm is common knowledge now, which I think is fair to say is true.