@Darkpaw If you do release a new TLP

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by AtabishiWoW, Feb 2, 2020.

  1. AtabishiWoW Elder

    Please Darkpaw, please...if you decide to release a new TLP that starts anywhere between Classic and PoP, no matter what the rule set is, please at least mention in there that you will at least TRY to do something about the botters and cheaters. This problem is at it's boiling point by Mangler, and is at it's worst in the modern era of TLP's (phinny and beyond).

    Please understand 2 things Darkpaw. First being that ban waves every 3-6 months do NOTHING. The damage is already done. This isn't like other games where a server can bounce back. It only takes a couple months of botters running rampant to destroy the economy of the server. Secondly, understand that policing botters/cheaters in EQ is easier than any MMORPG in history. Maybe someone can find a game easier to police than EQ that I haven't heard of, but either way it's definitely ONE OF THE EASIEST to police. It doesn't take any type of automatic detection software, it doesn't take any special kind of programming. It literally would just take one GM that actually UNDERSTANDS the game and knows how boxing works to spend 4-8 hours a week, if that, running around to different zones. As someone who legit 6 boxes, I could spend 15 minutes a week and completely eradicate the botting on a server, it's that easy.

    If a new TLP gets announced and doesn't come with some sort of acknowledgement about the current situation of botters on the TLP's, I just see it as being a failure at launch.

    Ps. Also if you are not releasing a new one, can you at least let us know by mid february so i can turn it up to try-hard mode on my return to mangler? Thanks =)
    Xanathol and Alarizod like this.
  2. Meridian Augur

    Ban the botters and hackers? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
  3. Zansobar Augur

    I don't think they have any GMs that understands the game and knows how boxing works.
  4. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    You do realize that from around PoP - CoTF there really aren't many botters on TLP servers right? If they want to defeat botters just release a server starting in LDoN or GoD. That way theres really not much useful to spend platinum on and not much need to sell krono to auto-bots who farm this platinum.

    The reasons there are botters in Classic - PoP is because people waste their money buying Kronos and trading them for non-sense useless gear in classic that will be obsolete in a month. The reasons there are botters beyond CotF is because they introduced rare tradeable raid loot that 24/7 automated groups can sell for Krono.

    Just stop releasing classic-PoP recycle servers and these people won't see the benefit in automating several groups there because there's no market for their printed platinum.
    Genoane likes this.
  5. Branntick Elder

    Why are you making excuses for Daybreak/Darkpaw?

    The reason for the excessive botting in early eras is twofold.

    1) That's where the players are. Let's face it, the overwhelming majority of the TLP crowd is not as interested in later expansions as they are in classic, Kunark, and Velious.

    2) Largest volume of high quality loot that can be traded.

    Releasing a server in later eras as some half- measure to reduce botting would be a waste of time. It will never acquire a significant playerbase.

    Stop trying to create workarounds for problems that Darkpaw is more than capable of solving directly, by identifying and handing out bans to botters. Except that won't happen, because that ain't where the money is at.
    Xanathol likes this.
  6. AtabishiWoW Elder

    I don't agree with most of this for several reasons. I think the main reason you don't see a ton of botters past PoP on other TLP's that started in classic and then reached those era's is because by the time those TLP's even reached an expansion like GoD, that TLP has been around for so long that the majority of the player base is gone, not because there isn't anything for the botters to farm. Also, TLP's such as phinny and agnarr never had full raid bot armies clearing in era content. That problem mostly started on Coirnav (which was basically dead by the end of PoP), but is nothing in comparison to Mangler.

    Say you started a TLP in PoP that had a starting population similar to a phinny/agnarr/mangler start, GoD would actually offer a higher rate of farmable items for krono than the 3 prior expansions, and would absolutely rival the farming of Kunark. If there was a classic launch level of population in Omens, that farm might even rival the classic farm. If nothing was done to the bot armies at all, they would absolutely being going full throttle in these expansions, which would actually still be very lucrative farming all the way through DoDH.

    So for your idea to even work, it would have to start WAY later, which like Branntick pointed out is not what people want, and is also a terrible solution to the problem.
  7. Kaenneth Augur

    Customer Support is a cost, not a profit
  8. Xanadas Augur

    I'm curious what the OP thinks of boxers who use isboxr and/or macaroni. What exactly is "legit 6 boxing"?
  9. Branntick Elder

    Once you start hooking into the game client to read information and automate characters with it, that is the line of legitimacy.

    I S B o x er is not comparable to that type of functionality at all. If you're pushing the buttons yourself (even broadcasting them), I honestly couldn't care less.
  10. curious2 Journeyman

    botters a huge problem even going forth past PoP. they find places like SG and just farm plat and run up the price of krono. last i looked on mangler, it was 35k and we're not in PoP yet. they farm plat, buy krono, sell krono for real money. now there is a dis-incentive for daybreak to do anything, 200-300 botting accounts is still generating revenue for them on monthly account fees. the question is simply when is it annoying enough to cost other accounts to leave versus the the botters taking their place. i dont have the math on that

    that said, i would continue to play if they made beastlords and beserkers available at classic launch on the next one. i would even buy a bag
    Thewiz likes this.
  11. SoandsoForumUser Lorekeeper

    Is this a bad thing for the average player? I spend most of my plat buying things from vendors so more plat in the system makes my salable drops or krono go farther on the things I want. If I need to buy gear the things I'm selling are just as inflated so it's a net neutral. The only downside would be if I wanted to grind cash mobs to try and buy gear itself, but that's terribly inefficient compared to just farming item drop camps, so it's hard to complain that a poor choice becomes even worse.
  12. Moranis Augur

    It is a double edged sword and depends on how you look at it.

    On one hand - the botters drive the plat price of gear and potions way down such that a few krono goes a real long way if you're looking to buy. On Mangler, almost every drop from Sebilis frogs was selling for like 5% more than vendor price.

    On the other hand - the botters drive the plat price of gear and potions way down such that it's really not worth farming if you're looking to sell items and get kronos.

    If you want cheap wares that you can buy with kronos - you should love the botters. If you want to make some kronos off farming, you probably hate the botters.

    ...

    That being said - I agree with the OP that even an empty promise of enforcing the rules on the books would go a long way in a new TLP. Mangler really broke my spirits. If the next TLP is like Mangler, I would expect that I would likely bow out early again.
  13. AtabishiWoW Elder

    I'm not sure of the limits/capabilities of isboxr so I cant be 100% sure on that one but from my understanding it makes boxing on EQ very similar to how boxing works on WoW, so I'd say it would be against the rules. As far as "macaroni" I'm not sure if you are referring to macro's like say what the enchanters use to to stun in the deep, or if you are referring to the bot programs.

    When I say legit 6 boxing, I'm referring to 6 computers, 6 monitors, with 0 broadcasting.
  14. Xanadas Augur


    Well, I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "botters" - but you say you want DBG to "do something about the botters and cheaters". Let's assume the ruleset is not truebox. In that case, the only illegal activity is unattended gameplay. Broadcasting keystrokes and even using that-which-shan't-be-named is not bannable gameplay. Many people conflate broadcasting and other tooling with bannable gameplay because of connotation the word "bot" comes with (automated, unattended gameplay). Using the term "bot" is simply too generic. Some people have a button that assists a person, and does a macro button to /cast "some nuke" - and they call that a bot. Laughable imo.

    I understand if you don't like boxers, but if the server is not a truebox server, there is literally nothing wrong with what they're doing. Is it "good for the community"? That too is subjective. Would DBG be better off losing probably 1000+ accounts worth of people who run boxes by banning broadcasting across all servers? Obviously that would be a huge hit to their bottom line and "bad for the community" in the long run when a mass exodus of players starts.

    I wholeheartedly agree that DBG needs to police "broadcasting" and other "advanced tooling" with extreme prejudice on truebox servers. I won't ever play EQ again in a solo manner, so I have not been able to play any new TLPs for several years now and I'm not even going to try to get around their truebox code.

    Lastly, if you don't know what macaroni is (code word for something they don't allow to be discussed on the forums), just understand that it's like broadcasting on steroids.
  15. Xanadas Augur

    Nonetheless, not bannable. DBG has always kept their positions on that-which-shant-be-named just behind the line of "bannable things".

    Their principle position is that you must be at the keyboard interacting with the game, and you cannot be exploiting (warping or otherwise breaking gameplay mechanics).
  16. AtabishiWoW Elder

    Rofl I have nothing against boxers. I'm one of the most infamously known boxers on the TLP's. I asked what you meant by macaroni in order to clarify what you meant by it.

    My post referred to botting and cheaters, and the assumption that any new TLP will also be truebox because who the hell even cares about a non-truebox server if they released one other than a small minority of people, it's dead on arrival. Broadcasting is not botting, but it's cheating as in against the rules. Warping is cheating. VM usage is cheating. As far as botting, it's any time a character is performing reactionary actions and movements without a person physically controlling it, hence a bot. It isn't just always fully AFK gameplay where no person is even present in the room. If a person is running 32 characters, and 31 of them are running on a script controlled by a 3rd party program, ok he's there present at his computer playing character #32, but 31 of his characters are bots. They are doing actions and movements on their own. That's what the two most popular bot programs allow you to do. An in game macro that you hit once and casts 5 spells is not a bot. Botting is also not only inclusive to those who are running a ton of characters at the same time, you could only have 1 box and be botting. Mangler has a ton of people with 1 cleric box that they bring around to raids etc that are completely run on healbot, which has fully automated reactionary healing where they just park the cleric in 1 spot and it plays itself. This is also botting.
  17. AtabishiWoW Elder

    Also you do realize you are posting on the TLP forums and not the live forums right? What you are saying refers to live servers, not modern era TLP's.
  18. Branntick Elder

    Literally untrue.
    • You may not decrypt or modify any data transmitted between the game software and Daybreak’s game servers. You may not develop, share, or use any software, program, macro, or interface that modifies the game play in any way or that gives a user any kind of advantage over other end users, except as expressly authorized by Daybreak.
    Lack of enforcement is the issue, and always has been.
  19. Xanadas Augur


    I prefaced my entire post with "Let's assume the ruleset is not truebox". So picking my arguments apart on the premise I was talking about truebox is disingenuous.

    Non-truebox TLPs will be here sooner or later (there is literally a pinned post to gauge the interest), so you can't just say "modern era TLP" as if that implies truebox just because the last 3 servers have been truebox.

    Regarding your comment about a "DOA" non-truebox server. I strongly disagree. I know an entire guild worth of people waiting for a boxable TLP. I would also wager all those "cheaters and botters" on Mangler would be happy to jump ship and play on a server where they don't have to operate under the pressure of possibly be banned at any moment if they're found out.
  20. Xanadas Augur

    We can split hairs all day - macaroni doesn't "modify" the game. It simply controls it. We've all been around the block on this issue so let's not pretend like anything new is going to come of this thread. Every time the legality of macaroni is asked about and a representative responds, they never specifically say that it's banned. They just say the gameplay cannot be unattended.

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