Not A Bug Damage abilities in PvP exceeding 40% life in single hits.

Discussion in 'Resolved' started by Sokon, Feb 20, 2021.

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  1. Sokon Augur

    The traditional cap of not exceeding 40% life in a single hit we all remember being limits on ManaBurn, Harm Touch and LifeBurn has been far exceeded by many skills now, causing the Zek server population to be convinced DBG doesn't care nor do they even test anything anymore for PvP, probably for years.

    Some single melee hits can do over 400 k damage, best example is Warrior rampage.
    Some single lucky critical dot ticks can do over 400 k damage, best example would be Druids Nature's Wrath.

    There are many others that exceed 40% or even 100% of a players life.

    In the past Zek or PvP players have focused on complaining about specific spells, abilities, items etc, addressing those items one at a time usually resulted in a lot of time involved to get them addressed so that they didn't effect PVE, eventually resulting in nothing being addressed, ever, for years.

    Solution: If a straight 40% cap to all hits dot ticks, DDs can't be implemented and even if it can be implemented, some classes such as Rogues, Monks, Berserkers and others do so much damage so fast(most hits not exceeding 40%) that even with a 40% cap on everything, people would still be dying way too fast. In general, that is the problem Zek has had. Kills happen so fast that many things aren't even an aspect in PvP anymore, like heals, mercs, or in some case as I play a Monk, even having enough time to click mend since I am dead instantly.
    *note if caps can be implemented, one might wanna consider having multiple caps. 40% for things like harmtouch, which still has this cap, and perhaps 20% cap on melee hits like rampage or on all melee hits(ramp can hit you more than 5 times) e.g. warriors could still one round an entire group with a 40% cap on each hit, they would just see 3-5 hits register before death instead of only seeing 1-3 hits.

    Final Solution: Caps are good. MOD 2s! What the Zek server/PvP really needs is a doubling of the MOD 2's(Spell Shield, DoT Shield and Melee Shielding) in PvP. A halving of the MOD 2's strikethrough, combat effects and accuracy could also be considered and work well. Making a change like this that would fix most all retardedly fast kills at once, across the board, would be a much better way to fix PvP on Zek than by addressing one spell, disc or other item at a time. Doubling mod 2's like avoidance and stun resist could potentially really mess things up, but the server and PvP in general needs flat out mitigation of all damage types.

    With such a change, EQ PvP could once again thrive.

    Doing something just to drastically increase the "mitigation MOD 2's" in PvP would be the best decision you ever made for PvP in Everquest. Now, especially with the luck stat, it IS NEEDED.

    It's not fun playing a Shaman or Cleric on Zek when you don't even have a chance to heal an ally once you notice they started taking damage, cause by then, they are already dead.

    It's up to you to provide us the sandbox on Zek that's fair enough we can(anyone could) all enjoy it. I've pointed out a few simple things that could be done to widely fix PvP. We on Zek want to have raid forces as well, and enjoy all the content PVE has to offer(most of us spend over 90% of our play time on PvE content here also).

    If your game has a PvP server and your job is to maintain your game's services to it's subscribers, considering for how long you have completely IGNORED Zek, I'd hope you'd take a little responsibility and do you job for once. I've pointed out a few easy ways you can do that. I've facilitated a conversation here on how to adequately address it.

    Stop being a disservice to part of your paying subscribers by just putting us on the back burner for another decade. Sure, it's fine for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 years in a row. But not this long it isn't. You really should do something this time.
    Riotgears likes this.
  2. KrakenReality Augur

    Hmm, sounds like feedback and not a bug.
    yepmetoo and GNOME_POWER like this.
  3. Fenthen Augur

    Player DPS against another player should be modified down to 1% of normal damage, so that burning a million DPS goes down to 10k, giving these fights a good 30-60 seconds (without heals) instead of one-round.
    Sokon and GNOME_POWER like this.
  4. Sokon Augur

    It's hard and I have tried to summarize feedback about how broken Zek has been for over a decade, but now with luck, it's even worse.
    Also, I gave feedback asking for "The Arena" forum section to be returned, you know, a place for PvP/Zek to post feedback, but my thread was deleted after I had to burn bluebies who replied to it.
    Going on 2 decades, so many people on these forums trying to shut up or shut down anyone posting about Zek. So sick of it. Here's your feedback!

    Why's it a bug? Cause none of the discs/spells in the entire game were ever coded to consider PvP in the first place, for how many expansions now? Sorry, but no ability in the game is suppose to do over 40% of someone's life no matter what. That's Everquest developer PvP basics. Fundamentals not carried forward for how long? And it's feedback now, not a bug? So sorry. It's a bug.

    Yes, something along the flat out mitigation of ALL damage types needs to be done. If that can be done with the mod 2's of spell shield, dot shield, melee shield, that'd be one way.

    ***** ^^^^^ replies ^^^^^ *****

    vvvv **** continued discussion **** vvvv

    In the past as some classes got more powerful stuff in PvP, there would be complaints about certain abilities, and those would get nerfed, and that took a lot of work and sometimes broke PvE. none of us want PvE broken, and the dev's could probably fix PvP with some kind of flat mitigation of some sorts, regardless all damage types in PvP need to atleast be cut in half.

    The only problem I can think of possibly occurring of doubling the mitigation mod 2's is perhaps for Warriors, since they have so much dmg reduction or flat number reduction on hits, they could become virtually unkillable. So for them, perhaps a 20-30% melee shielding increase would be more appropriate, instead of doubling it. But I don't know how any of this would work, I just know if done it would have a HUGE BENEFICIAL EFFECT on the state of PvP.

    Noone likes having their full box crew 1 rounded by one hit of a button by a warrior
    And even in some cases, if i get up on a group before they know I am in zone and able to click all my discs and burns I can also kill a whole group of people before a single one of them receives a heal, as a monk.

    Damage overall, in all categories is just crazy. Healing doesn't matter at all. In order for the server to be in anyway popular, healing has to be feasible. It can't just be burn fest by every class - some more than others - while leaving shamans and clerics the only ones that can't get kills OR heal fast enough.

    Pretty much all a max AA cleric can reliably do in PvP is what? DI and DA.

    Healing has to matter or be feasible.

    Also, with a significant extra flat mitigation, you can think about changing all abilities that don't work on PC's, or only work on NPC's, and get rid of that flag all together.

    Sure, this isn't feedback because I'm quite upset about it at this point. The dev tracker ticket website is gone. And submitting feedback would just be a waste of my time when it's obvious they don't care anyways e.g. The Arena forum section CANCELED.

    I've spelled out some of the problems. I identified a few possible solutions, and everyone I have talked to in game or various discords agrees that a flat out mitigation across all damage types is needed.


    Either give me Mob Hit Points, or reduce my damage by atleast half. AND continually evaluate if a higher percent is needed each expansion as the amount of damage players can do vs the amount of hit points they have CONTINUES TO WIDEN. Which you don't access.
    Riotgears likes this.
  5. Yueyenie Journeyman

    I also run a guild on ZeK, and I also agree that something should be done about the inbalance of PvP. I'd like to also add that the 15 min death effects really only hinders both PvP and PvE in the game. It was something that was added much later in the game, to prevent someone I guess from coming right back into PvP. But some classes are able to just remove the effects, while others can not. Players with multiple accounts just recycle toons over and over. It also discourages people from playing both PvP and PvE, and due to that 15 min snare, I don't think anyone has 15 mins now in days to just sit around and wait for the effects to wear off.

    Many abilities have be nerfed or not available any longer in PvP like Manaburn, Lifeburn certain AA debuffs. But other classes AA seem to be unaffected like SK Harm Touch. Instant AA abilities along with instant clickies can also create a one button instant death touch. This is only one example of many.

    Point system is outdated and useless, as well as the leader board.

    We have a large number of players that play now on ZeK. And we have been asking for quite some time to have the PvP both revamped and rebalanced.
    Sokon likes this.
  6. Sokon Augur

    Let's try and keep the discussion of Zek to one issue here:

    A flat damage reduction of all damage types across the spectrum, hopefully able to be implemented by adding a large % of additional melee, dot and spell shielding in PvP. If done, those 3 values could be reaccessed each expansion and increased by 1% or so.

    Let's face it, ever since PvP was balanced, the amount of Damage we all do compared to the health pool we all have has widened drastically. There has to be some kind of flat out mitigation of all types across the board to fix things.

    That is the chief complaint of anyone contemplating of coming back to Zek, the kills are just too fast. it's no fun boxing multiple chars just to have all three of them killed and all 3 of the mercs killed as well before any of them can even get off a single heal.

    It deters people from the server, has allowed the server to nearly die out and doing something this simple is needed if population is ever going to drastically increase. There's a ton(hundreds) of people enjoying PvP on illegal EQ emus. We could bring those guys back yall. They don't wanna be playing on those servers, but you forced them to, only there do they have admin/devs that fix things or do changes. It's not fair.
  7. Riotgears New Member

    Yep, damage is out of control, just gets worse every expansion. Some kind of cut like is suggested should work, not sure they can do that with mod 2's but overall damage in PvP needs to go WAY down. That's why people play PvP on unlicensed emulated servers, fights last a minute or more, instead of 1-5 seconds after engage.
    Sokon likes this.
  8. NinjutsuMMO Augur

    eq2 is opening a pvp server right away........

    maybe eq1 will also (shrug)
  9. dreamweaver Community Manager

    We won't be, as the devs have stated before.
    kizant likes this.
  10. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    Thank you for the feedback. At this time, we have no plans to address this.
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