Cya Everquest

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Elemental, Apr 4, 2022.

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  1. Bernel Augur

    I'm sure a lot of the automation is done to aid in boxing, not to aid in automated game play. That is, easing the pain of having to alt-tab and juggle multiple characters in the heat of the battle. EQ could make some minor changes to greatly ease this hassle and could make boxing a lot more enjoyable without needing 3rd party software. For example:

    * Have a way for a tank to stick to a mob
    * Make autofollow work reliably
    * Make macros have more than 5 lines
    * Have a way for one character give a command to a boxed character (e.g. /delegate_to Soandso /cast 4)

    A few changes like that would greatly reduce the need for automation software to assist in boxing. As it is, you have to be a person who really likes overcoming challenges in order to box. A lot of the people being labeled as cheaters were likely just using the software for things like not having their boxed characters run off in random directions and get killed while autofollowing.
  2. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Perhaps I am misinterpreting your flow chart/decision tree.

    Are you saying 'scripting software' is permitted as long as you are not on Truebox and not AFK?

    I am under the impression that at least the overwhelming majority of scripting (assumption: automation) is considered cheating. (Especially so since the burden of distinguishing non-AFK scripted play from AFK scripted play is placed on Darkpaw - which I highly doubt they want to do that).

    Edit: I am aware that you state this is an "old chart" so the more succinct policy recently released may override some assumptions from the past.
  3. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    Yes apparently so.
  4. Janakin Augur

    From what I understand any scripting or macro software that does not intercept client/server data was okay to use. For example a G15 keyboard allows you to create macros and scripts that can be tied to a keypress and as long as you are not AFK those are allowed.
    Svann2 and Beimeith like this.
  5. Beimeith Lord of the Game

    Correct.

    EDIT:

    Keep in mind the powers that be can change this at any time, however I have never seen anyone recently suspended for using their keyboard, (though I've often heard people *claim* that's the reason, just as I've heard people *claim* it was call of the hero, or some other nonsense).

    People using [unnamed 3rd party program] often try to conflate the program they are using with a keyboard macro to make it seem innocent, but they are very, very, very different in how they function, and this is just an attempt to muddy the waters / blur the lines / give plausible deniability.
  6. Janakin Augur

    See the beginning of that middle column, does software intercept client/server data? That is the key to the flow below it.
  7. HowDidIEndUpBackHere Elder


    Honestly most people use 3rd party software for more than just sticking to mobs, auto follow, and delegating commands.

    A quick Google search and you find:
    • fully automated to buff/heal/cc/dps
    • seeing spawns
    • auto running to zones/locations
    • auto pickup ground spawns
    • auto crafting
    • auto loot distribution
    • and probably a handful of other "features"
    So it is hardly just "tell my mage to cast some fire bolt". I don't think WoW has anything similar to this. I know they have bots but bots tend to be squashed out far faster during an expansion or progression server.
  8. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Thank you for the clarification. I always thought that was closer to key broadcasting.

    I think the descriptor (scripting) can be misleading by being an all-encompassing term. So I also wonder if "scripts" are triggering false positives. At this point, I wonder if that range of action is risky after reading this:

    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/what-constitutes-as-cheating.281242/
    Janakin likes this.
  9. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    If the software does not intercept client/server data it does not violate this?

  10. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    As mentioned above, the recently stated rules have changed.

    Anything that allows repetitive actions even while behind the keyboard is potentially off limits. They have been on a tear about censoring discussion of such here for a while now.

    Even things that are at a pace and in line with what a human can do, with you behind the keyboard, make you feel dirty now.

    But those multibinds will keep working I'm sure.
  11. Bernel Augur

    Right. I am *not* arguing that 3rd party software that enables those kinds of automated, AFK gameplay should be allowed. Rather, I'm saying the boxing experience is so terrible that it behooves EQ to make minor changes so that it doesn't suck as much. This doesn't mean that there's automated ways to farm ground spawns or anything like that. But give us some improvements so that boxing isn't like trying to herd cats. I want a way to do something like tell my enchanter box "/cast 4". I'm not asking for a way for my enchanter box to be fully automated.
    withStupid and MasterMagnus like this.
  12. netheril New Member


    Bye! :)
  13. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Wouldn't that be closer to key broadcasting (de facto)?

    Feels like the descriptor "scripting" tends to a more complex process and a more general definition. It's a technicality that has grown in relevance.

    I'm not trying to knock you; I'm concerned someone could point to your chart and say "he said it was OK" which is obviously not your intent. But cheaters are always grasping for straws.
  14. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    Macros and alt-tab where so much fun back in the day (to me).

    This kind of talk is increasingly off limits around here though.
  15. HowDidIEndUpBackHere Elder


    I thought I was so cool boxing a shaman and necro.

    "Yea, I GOT MY OWN REGEN AND SOW!"

    I don't think I ever used macros to dot, I was too dumb as a teen.
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  16. Janakin Augur

    Not sure now. I have used I.S.B. as well as G15 for years now and have been boxing since 1999 and never have been suspended until this year.

    I do multibind single keys in the game to multiple hotbar keys so I can press 1 key on my warrior and it will fire multiple AA's/skills at once while broadcasting that same key press to my other 5 characters to do the same. Might be triggering something on their end.

    Their response to me asking what I did wrong with I.S.B. was:

    Select your Game
    EverQuest
    Category
    Suspended/Banned Account
    Have you ever been banned or suspended before?
    No
    Date of Previous Offense

    Date of Current Offense
    January 07, 2022
    3rd party program used
    I>S>B>oxer
    Please tell us why you feel your account should be released
    Have not played AFK

    "Greetings,

    After reviewing your case it appears the account in question has been suspended for 7 days for using restricted 3rd party software.

    We do not disclose our findings in these cases as doing so could enable 3rd parties to better circumvent detection."

    If how I was playing is considered "cheating" then they need to adjust some in-game settings.
    Fenthen likes this.
  17. Bernel Augur

    Just a guess, but these cascading macros may be too close to automated game play. They may be fine with you pressing a button and it causes an action or small set of actions on another box, but not where there are cascading macros firing on multiple boxes. And it sounds like you could actually create loops of automated actions, where the hotkeys on one box cause hotkeys on other boxes to fire and trigger hotkeys on other boxes and so on in an automated fashion. They may be cracking down on these sorts of cascading actions. Just a guess on my part.
    Wdor and Janakin like this.
  18. Arkanny Augur

    I'm personally glad they're taking a stand against cheating and focusing on the long term. Even if some subs are lost now, a healthy game in the long run will be better for everyone. I'd rather see dpg focusing on ways to bring new players in trough tlps or merging servers with too low population than allowing cheating / boxing.
    I get that the game is old and bla bla, but i still think cheating/boxing should not be the default solution.

    edit: spelling
    Wdor likes this.
  19. Beimeith Lord of the Game

    Broadcasting generally refers to using 1 input (aka keyboard/mouse) to control multiple different end devices (1 keyboard/mouse controlling 2+ computers at the same time). This is considered cheating in some games, but not EQ unless on a TLP with Truebox.
    Janakin likes this.
  20. Janakin Augur

    You can create loops, just not ones that are infinitely repeating in I.S.B.

    But with G15 and repeat (autofire) it can be "somewhat" automated. Last time I played though I found it better to close the Logitech software and manage the Gkeys directly in InnerSpace so they are now just normal keys and since I have the original G15 it adds 18 more keystrokes.

    Anyhow, I am finding the solo lower-level game up to level 50 more fun right now and less stressful to manage :) Not that I am anti-group or anti-playing-with-other-players, I just do not have time to LFG and knock out 30 mins of play.
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