Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Razorfall, Dec 10, 2020.
Looks like you have a job to do Derka
I'm all on board with KISS. We won, and we did skip many of the mechanics. While I agree with you completely that you can ignore mechanics and win, as we did on all of these events, the topic of this thread is about missions being too hard.
I don't agree there is a complaint of difficultly while also ignoring the game mechanics and design. I don't take the stance of ignore it, zerg it, get gear and git good. I take the stance of optimization and performance. Call me silly if ya like, but that's how I think. I enjoy learning and understanding the mechanics, even if my armor makes it a moot point.
The fire orb at the very least casted fire orb embrace. This is listed on lucy as a heal, 125k per tick for 3 ticks, which is not insignificant to group players who are struggling, so perhaps this is a reward for a success rather than a penalty for a miss. https://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=52685&source=Live
Either way, it's really not that big of a deal to do the mechanic. Grilok is down when they spawn, and we preassigned 4 people to just grab stand in an aura and cast a spell while the tank and cleric continued business as usual. I can't see a reason to not just complete the mechanic. You say its too much work, but for the ranger to stand in the red aura and shoot the fire orb from Xtar 1 time, well, that doesn't seem like any work at all.
you --- you know all of these is just you casting Tash on mobs, right? the "slow" bits, too. that's you.
I have done this mission on 4 different group geared toons already. Not CoV group geared, and not maxed AA’s. The mission has to be tuned for the end of the expansion as well as the beginning. If not we have easy missions that multiple classes can solo like in ToV.
I did not say anything about group v raid and casual v hardcore. Coming up w a strat has nothing to do with being a raider or a grouper. It’s about failing and figuring out what you can do better.
So what I came up with was to hold burns on the first dragon since it’s fairly easy at this point and won’t have the abilities of the other dragons yet. I had our group use our big burns on the 3rd and 4th dragon because at this point the dragons have the abilities of the ones you have defeated.. so you want them dying as quickly as possible.
Again, the missions still have to be challenging for people in raid gear. They are ALL doable easily with ToV raid gear. They’re doable in less than ToV raid gear.. I’ve done them all on a group geared toons. People don’t know the mechanics of the events yet, so they’re failing. This is called a learning curve. Raiders go through the same learning curve learning raid events. That’s why they’re on beta, dying and learning the events there where you don’t lose exp.
The missions shouldn’t be a cakewalk for people in raid gear, that they can just ignore mechanics.. tank everything and burn. Raiders and group geared players should have to use specific strategies to beat events.
Imagine you were doing kael mission but you didn’t realize that you should slow kill icebound avatar and break off for adds. You would think the mission was completely overwhelming, impossible, and needed raid gear to complete. The reality is after you understand the mechanics and follow them properly it’s very easy. After we get over the learning curve and people know what to do (& what not to do) things will get much easier.
No, that’s not the problem at all. The missions should not be tuned for ToV group gear. That’s silly. This is a new expansion.. that has to last us the year. If the missions were farmable in ToV group gear, then they would be on farm from launch day.. and everyone would have all their gear by January. At this point the missions would be completely trivial for the next 11 months... as we have upgraded our gear and AA’s significantly from the way the missions are tuned.
Normally, Namers are for gearing up. You do hunters.. you get all the group gear rotting you want. You can Molo named, box named, etc. you don’t need a group of 5-6 real players like missions. Meaning you don’t have to SHARE the loot. If you take 6 ppl into missions w ToV group gear then all 6 are rolling on the items. That makes it harder to gear up than if those same 6 people were camping 3 diff namers in groups of 2 people and 2 Mercs. Missions are much more difficult and requiring the 6 players makes gearing people up slower.
This CoV xpac though.. you DEFINITELY don’t gear up through missions. There are T3 group ore’s dropping fairly commonly from trash mobs. It’s hilarious you are acting like you need to run missions to gear up when in reality you were getting carried through ToV missions by people that didn’t need or want the gear and that’s why you have that mindset.
This is hilarious. The entire expansion is nowhere near camped. There are /picks with less than 10 people in them frequently. You can find plenty of namers to spawn. I did my Sleepers progression on some Alts yesterday and was the only person in the zone for 3+ hours. AFK botters are not camping every cov namer.. & I’ve picked up several rotting pieces from namers I didn’t even kill that people announced and didn’t need. Those “afk botters” are farming no drop loot they probably don’t need.
This is part of the problem. Raid guilds go and get their learning curve done where there is no penalty for failure. By the time the events start on live servers, the raid guilds are then just seeing who can get the event down first before the servers drop after the patch.
Not enough testing, or even dev involvement, is given to the missions. Perhaps dev involvement is lacking on missions because not enough people are testing them. And the same argument occurs on the beta forums as it is here: raid vs. group geared. When missions are tested on Beta, they are often tested by raid-equipped players, and not enough by group-equipped players. And the argument again devolves into "It's challenging and beatable by me, ergo anyone can do it." Raiders are looking for something that will hold their interest until the raiding starts. Understandable. Once raids start, though, missions become trivial means for getting currency for augs and fodder loot for tribute. They already are trivial in the sense that raiders only need the missions for upgraded augs and currency, the rest of the loot means nothing.
I don't think anyone is calling for cakewalk missions. They should be challenging. However, they do need to be toned down a notch. Getting the achievements are still going to be tough even with if they get toned down a notch. As I stated in a post before, I have been in a group on Vox that beat The Crusaders on the 2nd night of the expansion release. We did it by the skin of our teeth, but we did it. Derka and I have been discussing strat on these, something that will fit us to get it done, thanks to the strats that have been posted on this thread. We plan on hitting these missions up again soon to test them out.
You are right, I am overstating the issue here.
This is not the problem at all, you can tell you didn’t do beta.. because players are also running through the missions and tasks, not just raiding. So the 2nd night of the expansion you beat the toughest missions in the expansion.. & you still think that it should be made easier? What happens when you get all your new CoV gear and max your AA’s in a couple months? Wouldn’t the mission that you could already beat without said gear and AA’s become completely trivial?
I did do beta, sir. Maybe not enough of it to qualify as "doing beta" in your eyes. And I did run missions, unsuccessful beyond Zlandicar with other groups from Vox. Maybe in your eyes, we just need to "git gud." I don't know.
Yes, my group beat the hardest mission in the expansion...by the skin of our teeth. When we went back in the next night, with a different group makeup, we failed, miserably. So, lesson learned, go back to the original makeup of the group that we succeeded with and run it again. Unfortunately, we haven't been back in to try this out again because of the schedules of two of the people needed (tanks).
And yes, I still say tone it down a notch. Just because we beat it once doesn't mean others will be able to do so. And notice I said "notch," not "nerf it till it becomes trivial."
What happens when we get our CoV T3 group gear and max AAs? I don't know because we haven't gotten to that point yet. And we still have to actually learn the mechanics of the missions, not just go in with a "burn it down" mentality like we were able to do with Griklor and Velk's Lab.
Not wanting to get too far off topic, so this will be my last comment about this...
In a word...yes. It's a game...more than that, it's a multi-player game. That means people help each other, or should, to accomplish things. It should be fun, not a ransom negotiation. If you have a free task slot, throw it out there to someone who might need it. No one is asking you to give up any "phat lewt" that might drop, but being able to check that box off in progression might mean a whole lot to a casual player who may not get a lot of time to play. If someone could use some help in the game, you don't go mercenary on them...you just help them.
So, yes...instead of auctioning off task adds, just offer them to guildmates or other players that might need that task.
Why are you changing you story now???? I can only asume you were carried through this misson with other raiders, or your orginal satemement was false.
Go back and read what you wrote, you said it was a challenge for those in TOV raid gear. CoV group gear will never be as good as TOV raid gear, so from your original post when would you expect those in CoV group gear to be able to complete missions? Next expansion?
So, just a bit unsure where you got me talking about small vs big guilds.. I said grab players though and those dont have to be in your guild to support and you dont have to stay exclusive to your mercs/guilds. Try venturing with others is what i said... cause the current state of mercs is trash and shouldve been upgraded but it wasnt. I dont care whether they are a pushover or a challenge, going to do em regardless and for the most part dont care too much about how others even want to do them. But if you are trying the same way over and over and it isnt working, try another way... thats not rocket math
The idea that people should farm group gear in current content before doing the group missions is a tad silly in my opinion.
I'm not saying that's necessarily the case but some people posted suggesting that, and that's not reasonable.
So why are you complaining that the mission needs to be tuned down when you admittedly don’t understand the mechanics, don’t have your new CoV gear, & don’t have your AA’s.
This is not about “git gud” you have already proven you can beat it without any of those things. This is about grinding out your AA’s.. everyone learning the mechanics, and getting your new gear. It seems it would be trivial as hell if you don’t need any of those things to complete it.
The idea that you should be able to do the hardest parts of the new expansion without the gear or AA’s from the new expansion is even more silly. I mean yeah, let’s just run right through the new expansion on launch day with ToV gear, AA’s, and not understanding the mechanics. That’s not silly to you?
Carried through the mission as the only healer on a shaman AND cleric? No, I wasn’t carried... I’ve done them with a mix of raid and group geared toons, I’ve done them with raid geared toons. I haven’t done them with a group of 6 group geared toons from ToV.. I wouldn’t try that. I would try group geared toons with CoV armor/AA’s in a month though. There’s a pretty good upgrade in HP on the new gear.. the AE survivability will be much easier after upgrading armor.
I have no idea what story you are accusing me of changing, but I haven’t changed my story at all.
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