CS Mission - The Crusaders still too difficult

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Razorfall, Dec 10, 2020.

  1. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    Imho, generally speaking:
    4 focused players in group tier2 + 2 mercs, should be able to beat the missions.
    6 focused players in group tier3, should be able to beat the challenger-achievements.

    There should be some leeway for non-perfect group setups, as not all classes are created equal.

    If raiders want a challenge, they are free to try the challenger-achievements with less than a full group, or attempt the vanquisher achievements on their raids.
    Marton, Biggho, FawnTemplar and 2 others like this.
  2. Kamor Lorekeeper

    In order to finish off your type 5's from this expansion you need to run and win over 200 missions per character.
    Biggho likes this.
  3. Velisaris_MS Augur

    If they would stop making the player-made augs lore, and made the vendor augs the ones with the better stats...this wouldn't be an issue. Having a set of augs with 10 less heroic on the primary stat isn't going to bother anyone except the most extreme min/max people. It sure as hell won't bother "casual" folks.
    Vumad and Biggho like this.
  4. 666DPSweDeliver Elder

    I disagree, there is no problem whatsoever with requiring a full 6 players to complete one of the missions.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  5. hiolpe Journeyman

    Putting my thoughts here so a different perspective can be heard. I'm in a large non-raiding guild with a broad degree of game-investment. Some members are just starting out, some players like to dabble with high level content, and some players have max group gear/AA/trophies/augs etc. I would have participated in beta but I'm still working on my character.

    I appreciate some challenge in the group game. I wouldn't want to play a game where I can solo or box "difficult" group content including missions. That's why I'm playing Everquest and not Guild Wars 2, FF XIV, or any other mmo that doesn't have the holy trinity in place. However, when players with raid gear/focii/max AA are finding "group" content difficult that's a sign of an overturned event. I think completing group missions should be more accessible to the larger player base. I'll respond to some comments from a different perspective for a contrast.

    Prior expansion raid gear is still much better than CoV T1/T2 group gear, which is what should be required to successfully complete missions. Players that don't want to dedicate themselves to a raiding schedule should still be able to complete all group content including special achievements.

    CoV group content should indeed be easy with ToV raid gear because ToV raid gear is much better than any group player will ever see. Group content should be tuned for those who cannot commit to a raid schedule.

    I agree that learning mechanisms behind an event and executing is a satisfying feeling. I think the playerbase is a lot more diverse than this forum might have one believe. I still get a rush when I complete ToV group missions even though these were deemed trivial by many on this forum. I get excited when I put a good group together to knock out special achievements. I'm sure a lot of my guild mates feel a similar sense of satisfaction. What may be trivial for one player is challenging for another player. CoV missions being challenging for players who can commit to a raid schedule means trouble ahead for a large portion of the non-raid force playerbase.
  6. Zuul New Member

    After the second crusader is dead, you will start getting green text in your main chat saying "power grows in the (NW, SW, NE or SE)." These locations correspond to the corners where the crusaders are. If you send a toon to the specified location and have them stand in the aura until they get a success message, it will nullify the AoE. After 3rd is dead, the emote will give 2 locations and you will need to send out 2 toons; one to each location. Remember to avoid the cubes. Kill adds first as they spawn; do not try to kill them between crusaders or the event will reset. Don't try to buff recently rezed players between crusaders or you will time out and reset. Run immediately to the next crusader and engage as quickly as possible. Pull the crusaders to the corner to avoid getting banished. Good luck!
    Ironkeg and Slide like this.
  7. Sissruukk Rogue One

    Is the thing with the auras a one time thing per crusader (3rd and 4th) or do you need to keep running back and forth, to and fro? Seems like they are intentionally trying to keep DPS off the crusaders.

    I agree that the adds need to be taken down before taking down the crusader you are currently on, but right now it appears as if the adds have the same amount of HP as the crusader, and if you are peeling off DPS for the auras then you are kind of screwed.
  8. Szilent Augur

    Adds ~50M hp, dragons ~150M hp, both depending on fight time since they have decent regen. A higher dps group will record less total damage.

    The dps variable is not present in The Call mission. Each warder has 136M hp no matter how fast or slow it's killed. That's a kindness, since whichever one you do 4th invariably goes invulnerable a dozen+ times.
    Redsumm and Sissruukk like this.
  9. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    To really be fair, the raiders say that they don't test the group stuff in raid gear. They make a betabuff toon and do the group content on those. The people who tend to actually do the group content in raid gear usually tend to be people who are actually group level players from my experiences
  10. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    There are far more issues with that old way then there are with the new paradigm. The current way the best group items (excluding the ultra rares) are obtainable by everyone, while the old way typically leads to people not being able to get the best items for their class because of RNG.
  11. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Beat this tonight for the first time with a guild raid group, Bard, SK, Rogue, Monk, Cleric and Wizzy. Was like a different mission. :)

    Huge difference between group geared chars and raid geared chars, tanking was close with a raid geared SK, DPS was a lot faster so less healing was needed anyway, rank 3 spells and raid level foci for spell/discs helped get the dragons deaded faster. CoV spells/discs won't make much difference as so few were upgraded and were also ones not usually used.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  12. Vaeeldar Augur

    Raid gear tanking being close is always a concern. I have a war in tow t2 raid, a pal and and a sk in in high end group gear. The sk can semi/sort of compete with passive healing but even then not really. There is a massive difference between a raid and even top end group geared tank.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  13. Szilent Augur

    That part of the anecdote is suspect. And is, notably, not told from the perspective of either the tank or the healer. I 2h through that mission as a warrior (so no LichSting/taps). I don't doubt that a warrior with less gear than I might want to dual wield instead for safety, or would put off the mission until filling defensive AA (I had nothing new defensively until this morning), but… yeah, "tanking being close" is not how I'd describe the potential concerns of The Crusaders
  14. Szilent Augur

    Emote is timed, you won't get any during the 3rd dragon if you're going fast.

    Also, there is no consequence to failing the emote. At least the first 1-2 times. There is an additional (pretty serious) dot that expands from Yelinak's room to encompass the fight area if several emotes are failed.

    Unless you're seeking the achievement, stay on your dragon.
  15. ArtremasEQ Elder


    No it dosn't reset, can kill dragon/adds in any order. Do this all the time.
    Also Adds despawn when you open the chest.
  16. ArtremasEQ Elder

    Avoiding the cube is so trivial. If 'stuff happens', do better positioning. This is not the concern for this mission.

    The AE's on the other hand.. in all the CoV missions, the AE's are brutal for group geared players. Both HP ones, and mana drains. Never mind what happens when you start on some of the achieves.

    When a full, optimal grp of top raid geared players have to 'work fairly hard' to complete many of the Hero mission achieves, (with mana issues for chars that don't have mana issues on raids), then I humbly suggest they are 'overtuned' for group geared players who may have no chance at completing them.

    PS: To be clear, I personally liked that they are hard, and have enjoyed doing them all over last 5 days many times, for all the achieves (except the bugged ones). BUT I worry about the ability for the general population to do them.. I wonder if DPG's intent was 'start hard, tune down later' or something.
    FawnTemplar, Yinla and Sissruukk like this.
  17. ArtremasEQ Elder


    Easiest to Hardest, my estimate.
    1. Zlandicar
    2. CS - Crusaders
    3. ST - Vulak
    4. ToV - Arryonar

    This changes depending on straight mission vs Achieves.
    Arryonar has by far the hardest achieve.
    Axxius likes this.
  18. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    From my log
    Was too far a way from the bodyguard for the kill message, but that was just as it died. Looks like a reset to me as the dragons reappeared.
  19. Sissruukk Rogue One

    Yes, you can kill them in any order. What you fail to mention, though, is whether or not you drag the add to the next Crusader or not. If you don't and focus on killing an add after you kill the current Crusader, the event will reset because you didn't engage the next one in time.
  20. Vumad Augur

    So last night I had a chance to do all 4 missions, and at present, these missions are not over tuned. Sorry, they are not. The Cliff Golum in TBL, yes, these, no.

    Some people are going to stop reading or try to invalidate my post as soon as I say we had 6 raid geared toons, but if you take that stance, then your view point is invalid by your bias.

    CoV launched on Wednesday. We beat all 4 missions on Sunday. 2 of the players had completed 2-3 of the events and had attempted but failed the last event.

    Yes, we are raid geared, but raid armor has about 8.9k HP. The new T2 visible in this expansion are about 8k HP.

    The problem with the group vs raider argument, is that the content does needs to be tuned to the group. Thing is, it IS tuned to the group. The actual problem is that Raiders have PRE-PAID while groupers have not. I am not saying that groupers are wanting something for free, but there is no credit in EverQuest. You pay in advance, or you pay after launch.

    There is NO WAY that the casual players have camped enough named in the last 3 days to be fully CoV T2/3 group geared with appropriate augs. I'm sorry, but if you haven't raided to pre-pay for your armor, you need to go get it and then complain. The CoV group armor from non-missions is a significant upgrade from ToV group armor. Non-raiders need to go get it. (Sidebar; Augs don't drop in raids, so raiders have the same augs as everyone else).

    We raid 3 nights a week. In that time I could complete all 4 missions. That means I have, only counting 50 weeks of the year, 300 opportunity to do missions (4*3*25, it was said above it takes 200 missions). So if a non-raider followed our raid schedule, of only raiding, not including any of our grouping time, of 9-10 hours of gameplay per week, they could spend 6 months gearing up in CoV and then still have 6 months to finish getting their CoV mission augs before the expansion ends. And since not all of the missions are that hard, they can start on the ones they can beat now and work their way into the content.

    I am sorry to tell the people complaining that farming armor, grinding AA and dying in the development of a strat is part of EQ, but it is.

    Maybe these events could use a slight slide back from where they are at some point, but for 3 days after the expansion launched, no, they are not over tuned. People need to go farm the CoV group armor. This is a year worth of content.
    Yendar likes this.

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