Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Razorfall, Dec 10, 2020.
Even more reason that it’s not overtuned. It’s doable in prior expac group gear and without all the new AA’s
There is a balance between the two. Those casuals have every prior expansion to work on still. There is no reason to make new content tuned for them. If we used your logic we should have had 2 of the new expansion zones as level 0-10, 2 more 10-20.. we don’t want to take away their enjoyment... right?
The casual players you are referring too can work up to this content. In the mean time they can do other things.
The mission obviously doable. Admittedly you say you completed it without knowing the mechanics, without the new gear, and without all the new AA’s. So when you have those things it’s clearly not going to be unbeatable at all.
What you are saying here, doesn’t make sense. Many “casuals” don’t have time to invest in the content but want to enjoy it. So where do we cross the line? Do the casuals that are still level 10 get a new zone every year? Should we have devs develop content for level 0-10, 10-30, 30-50, & give us one end game zone every few expansions?
The new expansion is set up for the players that play.. to challenge them. The casuals you are referring too can work up to that content at whatever pace that they want. We don’t need to be creating content for players that are behind or play poorly. Those players have years of content already to play.
Cadman, curious on your group make-up and any suggestions for the other missions? Thanks
I apologize for not responding to this thread earlier. When it devolved into "you suck" arguments, it lost most of its value to me. I do want to thank the folks that added useful information. Let me see if I can address some general themes and questions.
Order of difficulty should be the same as the order of progression for the raids:
Raiders are never a consideration for difficulty in missions. They are designed exclusively for group players and if they are easy for raiders, that's fine. They are meant to be doing raids, after all.
Group players should need to get some gear before attempting these missions. They are meant to be hard to do if you are using bots. Get people. We like when people work with other people to do things. That is the point, after all.
In the perfect world, the first mission would be easy-ish for groups with a little gear, and the final one would be hard for groups with a lot of gear. This, sadly, is not a perfect world.
Someone also mentioned that they would like to see missions that are like quests rather than raid copies. I would to. There is a major difference in challenge level between raid copy missions and the others, in that those others tend to be a lot easier and help to offset issues with all the missions being "too hard".
I am hoping to address most of the things I want to address for the update in January. In general, I want to:
Zlandicar - nothing, really. I have my regrets about how it is so burnable, but I'm not planning any changes to this one.
Aaryonar - Fix some issues I found. Some of the stuff don't do properly. Also plan to smooth out the mechanics in a way that will make it a bit easier.
Crusaders - I want to review some of the damage values on some of the spells. I also agree that some of them should not be unresistible. That's a thing that I think I should leave in raids, but don't need for group content all that much.
Vulak - I would love to make this event harder when you get to Vulak, but that might make it just too hard for groups. So, at this time, I don't have any plans to change this.
Thanks for caring enough to argue over stuff like this! Let's just keep the name calling out of it. That doesn't help anyone and is the easiest way to ruin a useful thread.
That should be something we all try to do on every topic really.
Thanks for all you do Absor.
My apologies for crossing the line on this.
Thank you especially for that one. I was meanwhile so angry about some bragging people that I never tried these missions again and hooked it from my checklist as impossible. That the devs are willing to officially state that this is made exclusively for group geared people brings my motivation back. Some people here should have that in mind for the future.
Such posts likes yours are sometimes more than needed.
Thanks for the clarification Absor. As a non-raider its nice to know the target is to be doable by us even if extra gear is required. Look forward to doing these.
Probably too late to change it but I feel the 4 corner mobs could be tuned down a little and Vulak tuned up.
Basically right now if you get to Vulak you win.
Thank you Absor! I got to tell you I’m pretty stoked for COV with you maintaining the challenge of these missions and a Ngreth limiting the drop rates on the ore. This is shaping up to be one of the more profitable expansions for me.
It's appropriate-feeling that if there is to be just one spot in the group game, that it's versus Vulak'Aerr that groupers (group tanks in particular) are rewarded for doing dragon-flippies. Overall difficulty notwithstanding, he has a unique mechanic in that way.
Which can trivially be ignored right now. It feels like the boss should be the hard part not the trivial part.
Thank you for this response. We all know what your goal is.. and while I do enjoy having the raid copy events, it’s all nice to have some of the quest type difficulty missions for group geared players. I think these are important for the health of the game. They can work there way up to the raid type missions... & still enjoy the new content. These should be on an easier difficulty level but more time consuming
Personally as is I think Zland is the easiest mission followed by Vulak. Aaryonar and then Crusaders is the most difficult. I think most people would agree.
Usual group makeup for first wins was Warrior, Warrior, Bard, Shaman, Necro, Necro (or 1 Necro and a Cleric)
Not a typical perfect group, just friends that play well and use Discord to co-ordinate stuff
Don't get me wrong, some of the Dragons levelled up on our corpses... just persevere and you'll get there
Thanks, will keep at it.
Perhaps if the team responded to these threads in a timely manner they wouldn't descend into such turmoil. I mean... it was left to fester for week before anyone official commented on it. Not trying to be negative here but I for one have been very thwarted by the lack of response from the dev team on this expansion. Its abundantly clear CoV was rushed and I assume not as much work was put into it possibly due to COVID. That said, would it be too much to ask for better communication with the community as many are trying to aid your team to improve CoV.
I'm glad you put this out in the open so that the elitest raiders can stop saying "its fine" or "its easy". That being said I am kinda shocked at the response below considering your above statement. I for one have attempted and/or completed all of the missions. We have done it with a mixture of raid geared as well as group geared (full T3 CoV group gear) and I feel like your findings are grossly inaccurate.
Zlandicar - Easy in its current state if you burn but as for group geared people... drawing this out is very difficult for achievements.
Aaryonar - This event has so many bugs its not even funny. Moving past the bugs, the damage taken by the tank is quite high after the dragon comes back down and the large golem is up (assuming you rooted or depoped guardian) without a glyph running. Feel like the damage output on tank is too much for a group geared player.
Vulak - You want to make this harder? Again, who are you testing this with when you come up with these ideas. I think the community would like to know what sample group you use to decide difficulty. Again, the damage on the tank can be rough but doable for the DPS. Healers without strong AoE healing can struggle towards the end on the 4th dragon. Also, the inactive phases towards the end of this fight is nothing but annoying. I would love to know what the intent behind it is as there is nothing entertaining about standing there waiting for the mob to go active again, and again, and again....
Crusaders - Obviously this mission was the source of the thread. Its WAY over-tuned for group content across the board (DPS/Tanks/Healers). The AoE's are far to high. You placed dragonfly adds on this even which if tanked by the tank cause your group to take ADDITIONAL AoE's from the dragons frontal cone and the list goes on. I'll wait to see what you have planned for this.
In closing, its very disappointing the lack of communication from dev's on these issues and many others posted on the boards. I really hope we see some changes in the near future.
The Crusaders -
The adds are immune to root. Not all groups have an enchanter(which I don't know if they are mezzable or a second tank) I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that the adds also be rootable for croud control.
So far the mission is horrible and it will be a do once and be done with it type of mission that we grown about helping someone with they come in late to the expansion. Then like all things we'll get the crew together do it and task add those people.
Separate names with a comma.