Crippling Glare, Why does it have a debuff with duration?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Scornfire, Apr 29, 2020.

  1. Scornfire The Nimbus Prince

    The 1s stun from the Shining buff line has an 18s debuff with a duration that does precisely nothing, the heal and stun are applied when the proc is triggered, why is this debuff a thing? this doesn't prevent multiple procs of the stun/debuff/heal recourse landing for any given player before the debuff expires. It doesn't even get overwritten from other's procing it, it doesn't get resisted by stun immune mobs, and it doesn't serve any obvious purpose as far as I can tell.

    I've seen, seemingly purely due to AE rampage (no target changes from the mob), upwards of 6-8 crippling glare debuffs on a raid boss at one time (Hi Sleeper, Hi Bledrek). I don't think it's unreasonable to ask the debuff be removed entirely, since, again, it serves no purpose.
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  2. Scornfire The Nimbus Prince

    Shameless bump #CrusadeOfTheWeek
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  3. enclee Augur

    I'll join you on your crusade of the week.

    Why does this have a debuff?
  4. Szilent Augur

    If the debuff had any sort of effect on it, then further procs would just make it overwrite others of itself, right? That'd fix the most egregious problem of contributing to debuff proliferation. Like, a -1% SPA185 debuff? That'd be actually good.

    If it could still proc the heal back even if it's blocked, then using a common Atk debuff like slot2, SPA2 would work also, without adding any power to it.
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  5. Scornfire The Nimbus Prince

    Back to the first page, I WILL NOT SURRENDEER
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  6. enclee Augur

    The only way to get this to change is to start creating a post of memes.
  7. Fintank Augur

    Would also like for Ennui line of buff procs to not place a debuff on the mob if there is a better slow on it already. DEBUFF SLOT MADNESS!
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  8. Repthor Augur

    the Ennul debuff servs a purpose its not a slow persay its a increase weapon dely in other words its a form of "slow" that stacks with normal slow effects

    i agree with the shineing glare thing however no reason for a debuff that does nothing to take up a debuff slot
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  9. Scornfire The Nimbus Prince


    Not my best work, I needz nap
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  10. Sirene_Fippy Okayest Bard

  11. Scornfire The Nimbus Prince

  12. Scornfire The Nimbus Prince

  13. Metanis Bad Company

    The purpose of the 18s debuff is obviously to limit how often the Shining Aegis proc is allowed to fire. If allowed to proc more often it would constitute an overpowering mechanic. They don't overwrite because a method has to be used to keep track of which player is responsible for the proc. So what this really means is some guilds have really good clerics who try to keep this buff on many plate classes at once and they're all getting procs from the buff.

    As a cleric I want that 10% melee absorption for over 10 minutes on my tanks! But I could live without the 12.5k max heal proc once every 18 seconds if it's costing a debuff slot! (And I never realized the heal component was so ridiculously weak!)
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  14. Baldur Augur

    The debuff doesn't keep the proc from firing, it keeps the mob from being stunned again from the proc for 18s. The debuff definitely serves a purpose, it's so you can't keep the mob stunned forever from it.
  15. Scornfire The Nimbus Prince

    The debuff doesn't keep the proc from firing, the debuff doesn't prevent the "target" from being stunned again within it's duration, there is no blocker in the spelldata, if you trigger it again while it's already on the mob, it just refreshes the debuff whereupon it applies the stun and the recourse heal again, there is no purpose to actually having a debuff with an effect like this. Furthermore, in the instance where this debuff is ACTUALLY a huge problem (on raids) the mobs are Stun immune, yet here we are, with half a dozen+ debuff slots getting instagibbed every round of AE ramp.

    Here's a video, You can see how fast the mob reacts to my movements at the start, you can see the lil stars above his head when he gets stunned, you can see him sit there for a second when I move after he gets stunned, you can see the Debuff still had plenty of duration when the second stun lands, you can see the spell emote text in the bottom right of the wolf getting stunned both times, you can observe the delayed reaction to movement yet again, it is being stunned.

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  16. Cadira Augur

    Last I knew the purpose to certain spells having a buff slot was to "carry" multiple effects upon being cast. In this case I guess it's the stun and the self heal. Something about the coding for spells to have multiple effects in one required them to be carried by an otherwise useless buff/debuff.

    I think it's the same reason our dissident provides two buffs, one buff (the heart icon) when lands on the tank, it procs another buff (the axe icon, hp increaser) and the heal/group heal.

    Hp buffs like symbol and shaman unity put a useless temporary buff in our song window which "carry" the multiple effects that each one provides (I think that's its purpose, at least).

    I could be completely wrong, but I thought that's why buffs and debuffs sometimes have a "carrier buff" and even if I'm right, this might not apply to crippling glare, just a possible explanation.

    And even if that's right, I'm pretty sure they could code it to not need a carrier but it's probably way more complex and maybe they're just too lazy to code spells like that if they can get away with it?
  17. FawnTemplar Augur

    Astral64 likes this.
  18. Nylrem Augur

    Have to agree wholeheartedly...

    'tis ridiculous to have 6-7 buff slots taken on a mob just because have some good clerics that keep Shining up on tanks.

    Of course, one possible fix is to remove all AE rampage from all mobs... /wink
  19. FawnTemplar Augur

    Pretend I'm adding something meaningful and not just bumping this back to page 1
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  20. Scornfire The Nimbus Prince

    There are several spells/abilities that effectively "cast" multiple spells without a pointer song/buff (Unity AAs for instance), Intervention/Contravention for example if you want to look at other cleric spells, but I'll focus more on the dichotomy of the 2 Necro Multicasts. We have The Swift Decay line which casts a normal duration Disease and a Swift Disease DoT, this line has a pointer Debuff. We have Chaotic ___ which casts a Resist Debuff, a fire dot and a corruption DoT, this line does NOT use a pointer, both lines dynamically search the spellbook for the highest rank of each component spell (much like dissident's do). So, what's the difference? I don't know. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, the only big difference was their introduction date, where Chaotic was introduced in VoA, swift decay was made in TBM and of course dicho's (earlier version of dissident) came in during TBM as well. Some spells with pointers I *Believe* are designed in such a way to prevent certain SPAs/Focus and Twincast effects from effectively double dipping (IE. Twincast the pointer spell then twincast the component spells). But I digress, the bottom line is it *Should* 100% be possible to code the spell without the debuff and retain both effects upon proc, and barring a willingness to do that, it *is* possible to get other sources of the proc debuff to overwrite eachother and at LEAST limit it to 1 pointlessly wasted debuff slot.
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