Which is more effective at reducing dmg output of mobs? (keeping in mind the helix slow is partially mitigated) [44945/6651] Undermining Helix Rk. II Classes: ENC/103 Skill: Alteration Mana: 739 Target: Single Range: 200' Resist: Magic -15 Reflectable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 2.5s, Recast: 6s, Rest: 1.5s Duration: 5m+ (50 ticks), Dispelable: No Hate Mod: -80 1: Increase Disease Counter by 24 2: Decrease Melee Haste by 70% 3: Decrease STR by 322 4: Decrease AC by 132 5: Decrease DEX by 322 6: Decrease AGI by 322 7: Decrease Chance to Dual Wield by 18% [41771/27449] Crippling Aurora Sparkle V Classes: ENC/254 Skill: Alteration Target: Caster PB AE Range: 100' Resist: Magic Reflectable: Yes Focusable: No Casting: 1s, Rest: 1.5s Duration: 7.5m (75 ticks), Dispelable: Yes 1: Decrease DEX by 129 2: Decrease AGI by 150 3: Decrease STR by 150 4: Decrease AC by 66 5: Decrease Chance to Dual Wield by 50%
Most likely undermining in most situations but will let a math geek chime in for the definite answer for you.
Thats what I am thinking too. I forgot that undermining also has 100% chance to proc somnolence via AA. [42639/42632] Somnolence VIII Classes: ENC/254 Skill: Conjuration Target: Single Range: 350' Resist: Magic -500 Reflectable: No Focusable: No Casting: 0s Duration: 2m (20 ticks), Dispelable: Yes 1: Decrease Chance to Hit by 24%
From a raiding perspective the spell is essentially useless. It doesn't justify a spell gem slot at all. Heck in basically all group content it doesn't warrant the slot either just because in most situations even named mobs just get steam rolled. Shaman turgur's slow (AA) is better with a quicker reuse and incorporates their cripple line in it than our Helix line Enchanter Dreary Deeds (AA) is a better % based slow (than Helix) without the cripple/somnolence aspect - with a much quicker reuse which makes it way more user friendly for multiple adds, not to mention you can offset GCDs with an AA In most situations I just use Demolished Consciousness to proc Somnolence and then unmem it again on raids. That spell slot is better utilized in other areas such as dd/dot runes etc. Enchanter's have asked time and time again for somnolence procs to be moved off our cripple line as it is not something that we bother using on raids except for somnolence, which is entirely annoying. As for Crippling Aurora - it is useful you just want to try and incorporate it in situations where you maximize it with as many mobs up as possible + a boss if able, preferably on engage. Reuse is 3mins which means in situations on raids with various "waves" of mobs, its best to coordinate casts from your enchanter crew. Here is the break down (I incorporated our newer Helix slow for comparison instead of the 103) [57201/6751] Constraining Helix Rk. III Classes: ENC/108 Skill: Alteration Mana: 927 Target: Single Range: 200' Resist: Magic -30 Focusable: Yes Reflectable: Yes Casting: 2.5s, Recast: 6s, Rest: 1.5s Duration: 5m (50 ticks), Dispelable: No, Allow Fast Regen: No Hate Mod: -100 1: Increase Disease Counter by 26 2: Decrease Melee Haste by 70% 3: Decrease STR by 411 4: Decrease AC by 192 5: Decrease DEX by 466 6: Decrease AGI by 466 7: Decrease Chance to Dual Wield by 20% Text: Your strength is diminished. Curtails your target's abilities, adding #1 disease counters and decreasing their agility by #6, dexterity by #5, strength by #3, armor class by #4, and ability to dual wield by #7% while slowing their attack speed to #2% for %z. [40944/27629] Dreary Deeds II Classes: ENC/254 Skill: Alteration Mana: 430 Target: Single Range: 200' Resist: Magic -10 Focusable: Yes Reflectable: Yes Casting: 2s, Recast: 4s, Rest: 1.5s Duration: 90s (15 ticks), Dispelable: No, Allow Fast Regen: No 2: Decrease Melee Haste by 73% 3: Increase Disease Counter by 20 Text: You slow down. Reduces melee attack speed by #2%. [36100/6500] Demolished Consciousness Rk. III Classes: ENC/96 Skill: Alteration Mana: 296 Target: Single Range: 200' Resist: Magic Focusable: Yes Reflectable: Yes Casting: 3s, Recast: 1.5s, Rest: 1.5s Duration: 7.5m (75 ticks), Dispelable: Yes, Allow Fast Regen: No 1: Decrease DEX by 291 2: Decrease AGI by 291 3: Decrease STR by 291 4: Decrease AC by 120 5: Decrease Chance to Dual Wield by 17% Text: Your consciousness shatters into slivers. Shatters your target's consciousness, decreasing their agility, dexterity, strength, and armor class for %z. [41771/27449] Crippling Aurora Sparkle V Classes: ENC/254 Skill: Alteration Target: Caster PB AE Range: 100' Resist: Magic Focusable: No Reflectable: Yes Casting: 1s, Rest: 1.5s Duration: 7.5m (75 ticks), Dispelable: Yes, Allow Fast Regen: No 1: Decrease DEX by 129 2: Decrease AGI by 150 3: Decrease STR by 150 4: Decrease AC by 66 5: Decrease Chance to Dual Wield by 50% Text: You have been crippled. Saps your target's power, decreasing their agility by #2 points, dexterity by #1 points, strength by #3 points, armor class by #4 points and their ability to dual wield by #5% for %z. [48880/13144] Turgur's Swarm VI Classes: SHM/254 Skill: Alteration Target: Single Range: 250' Resist: Magic -50 Focusable: Yes Reflectable: Yes Casting: 0.6s Duration: 8m (80 ticks), Dispelable: No, Allow Fast Regen: No 1: Cast: Turgur's Diminishment IV 2: Decrease Melee Haste by 80% 3: Increase Disease Counter by 16 Text: You feel drowsy. Reduces melee attack speed by #2%. [48901/13144] Turgur's Diminishment IV Classes: SHM/254 Skill: Melee Target: Single Range: 250' Resist: Magic -2000 Focusable: Yes Reflectable: Yes Casting: 0s Duration: 8m (80 ticks), Dispelable: No, Allow Fast Regen: No 1: Increase Disease Counter by 23 3: Decrease STR by 321 4: Decrease AC by 132 5: Decrease DEX by 321 6: Decrease AGI by 321 7: Decrease Chance to Dual Wield by 18% Text: Your strength is diminished. Lowers strength by #3, dexterity by #5, agility by #6, the ability to dual wield by #7% and armor class by #4 points. So to recap the extra 2% duel wield decrease chance and 90-145 str/dex/agi + 60ac is no incentive to use the spell at all (turgurs vs helix cripple aspect). It's just not practical to use.
Isn't the difference between 70% and 73% has basically unparsable and 70vs 80% unnoticable due to mitigation? A group trash mob is supposed to have ~50% mitigation and a group named 75%? If your talking raid bosses, 70% vs 80% might yield a 1% difference (is it 10% or 5% on raid bosses)? IF its 5%, the difference is probably truncated so they have the same effect.
The point wasn't the 3% slow matters, the point was you don't use a spell gem and you can offset gcds from spells and slow mobs in between. You missed the point.
I wasn't disagreeing that the global cooldown avoidance of the AA is a great thing. Outside of a raid situation (Where you probably don't have an enchanter and a shaman together) how does the slow AA compare to the spell with the added cripple?
In a group setting it doesn't change assuming dps is high. I said that above. Most group content is such a push over, including named, that Helix is completely insignificant. If your DPS is low and mobs take longer to kill, then maybe I could see a miniscule argument for using it. However I'd just counter with why does your DPS lack? How are you coordinating adps? It's the same ol thing we continue to see in eq in most all situations. DPS > all
I guess thats the jist of what I was wondering. Is cripple basically worthless in the game? Even the -20% duel wield?
Yes in a group setting it is imo. Maybe a few named but that's debatable. And of course on raids you have it from shamans on mobs per turgurs so enchanters are relegated to cripple just for somnolence, basically raid boss only. It's annoying and we have asked for it to be changed.
So, what game design choices should be made to make slows relevant? Slow being mitigated seems like a bad choice. Mobs dying in 10-20 sec, and mitigation being so strong for tanks and pets that it makes little difference might also be a barrier...
Does it matter how useful spells are for raiders in group content? What spell is he replacing helix with ? The comparison shouldn't be Helix spell gem vs vs an aa ae debuff not every group has a shammy in it in the group setting. as a tank I want a chanter casting the ae debuff on multi pulls then single target slow+bigger debuff on the primary target. regardless if the mobs are being muti tanked or on a mezz rotation.
Do you mean in a group setting? Because if so, wouldn\t it mitigate more damage if the Enchanter dps, thereby killing the mobs faster?
In a group setting an enchanter spell lineup would be something like this 5 and 6 can become slots for single target buffs during raids/group 5,6,9,10 become runes for most raids 6,9 could be utility runes in group as well depending on setting Mindslash Mindsunder Tash Mindcleave Chaotic Bewildering (force tc mezz) Pbae stun (runes if not mass pulling) Unity rune Mana recip aura Pbae mezz (runes if not mass pulling) Stare mezz Dicho Strangulate Mind Tempest *Other spells worth mentioning - NET, Alliance(raid), single target MR, charm etc* The objective is to kill mobs as fast as possible and if you take forever to kill group trash and even group named, well you need to get with the right people and improve because that shouldn't happen. In most situations mobs die so damn fast it's completely redundant to waste a gem slot on helix for a flat 2.5sec cast when mobs die in 10-12secs. The enchanter should be rolling bite of tash ae and dpsing / stunning to offset damage from multiple mobs. It's exactly why I said in other threads unless you are mass pulling and dotting mobs from the bottom of extended target up to your tank/raid mark (which you should be), then even mind tempest becomes a waste in most group content. The mobs just die entirely too fast. There is never one situation where helix ever warrants a gem slot on my spell sets ever. Multiple mobs pulled in Bite of tash Dreary Deeds if needed (mostly doesn't matter in group content / tank slow belt) Strangulate/mind tempest from bottom extended up Stuns to offset damage Nuke weave in between on assist The end result isn't so much impacted by whether there is a shammy around, even though it's a driving factor in a raid setting, it's just that it's a waste of time in a group setting if an enchanter plays their toon to maximize dps/adps/cc which is what they should be doing. PS - this isn't even as close to as in-depth as it could be.
Was going to echo pretty much everything Sindaiann already pointed out. Helix only finds its way onto my spell bar against very strong named NPCs that I'll be tackling solo. In 99% of content, its much better to be rotating Dreary Deeds -> DPS1 -> Dreary Deeds -> DPS2, as Deeds can be cast on the GCD. This means you are effectively wasting no time slowing mobs while also doing damage from second 0. Shamans do something very similar with Turgurs.
One thing about that lineup. I never use chaotic, because it can be more trouble than its worth (In group setting). Yes it greatly increases the enchanters spell damage, but it makes ALL pets stop attacking (assuming mob is mezzable, so not a named). This gets bothersome if you are in a group with several other casters.
In a group setting it's not the initial form of CC - it's generally bite tash then beam of slumber and stare mezz to lock/pbae offset depending on how many mobs pulled. Chaotic then from bottom of extended to force twincast and resume dps If a pet class ever complained to me about managing their pet I'd just laugh at them. Reroll then. That's an insane reason not to use Chaotic Bewildering. No mage beastlord necro or sk I have ever played with has ever complained. Edit - Believe new one is Chaotic Delusion, still used to old names.
Then your missing something Sindaiann and hurting your party. If you mez the mob a mob currently in combat, ALL pets drop (including things like mage gorgoyal pets which do significant damage). It gets really annoying if you need to continually reattack with pet and swarm pets (and cannot do this mid cast). Also, if you are not in a group full of raid gear, t2 certainly do not die in 10 seconds.
