Consider a couple tweaks to the slayer achievements

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Pikollo, Mar 17, 2023.

  1. Pikollo Augur

    I guess I can't disagree. Its always the same people crapping on other peoples ideas/suggestions.
  2. Captain Video Augur

    I won't be nice. You keep demanding that players explain decisions made by the company, and none of us can do that. Feel free to make all the suggestions you want, but accept the fact you will rarely see any answer to the why not question. If you want to reach out to the devs on this suggestion, go to the Discord, they spend a whole lot more time there than here.
  3. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    There is a big difference between changing an AA line for server performance and spending time adjusting multiple achievements because someone feels that they make more sense with some changes. The work to change banestrike isn't remotely the same as the work needed to change the induvial achievements that are needed for the bigger ones that grant the AA upgrades.

    You can't equate work to improve performance by removing a large number of proc checks with the AA change to work to change how an achievement series is obtained just because you think it makes more sense and would be easier to obtain on a TLP server.

    There is no real benefit to be gained from this change besides the claim that you could get one of them earlier then you currently can.
  4. Pikollo Augur

    lol I don't demand anything. I make a suggestion. The trolls reply and act like they are the devs, or a golden child of the dev, and down it immediately with no logical explanation other then "they wont change it" or "theres other things". The only thing I've asked is to, in your opinion, tell me why the suggestion is wrong or would not work without hiding behind the same old tired arguments you guys always have. I know nothing will change. The dev's only listen to a select few who, lets face it, are morons (see Vaniki). I hold no illusion they would read this post and say "hey you know what? That guy is right!".

    And if that reply is you holding
  5. Pikollo Augur

    I won't speak as to what effort it would take to change the achievements as I don't know. What I know is they were already in the system reworking it. They had to remove the bane procs from each achievement right? So they were already manipulating each achievement. Would it really be much more work to streamline the achievements to work from minimal to maximum amount of effort? They have to change what? Six whole sub achievements to a different achievement?

    And again. I did not claim, nor have asked, to get more then one of these achievements earlier. I did in the patch notes because I do kinda find it unfair but I guess progression servers need to progress right? What I have suggested is making it so the minimal effort achievement is obtained before the maximum effort achievement for TLP. Its not a hard ask. It doesn't change anything. We will still be capped at 4%. But it will make life easier for anyone making a char, switching mains etc. And all they gotta do is change a couple achievements.

    Also according to Captain Video you're not allowed to reply as if you know what the company is thinking or doing. So you can't say its a lot of effort to change. You're not allowed to. Right Cap?
  6. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    You keep trying to link the change to the banestrike AA as a justification for changing how the achievements are gotten when those changes touched nothing at all with the achievements in question. There is no reason at all to change those achievements just because you feel that the order would be better because of the change. There is no reason to spend developer time on that which includes the time to determine if it even makes sense to do instead of the other work that was planned.

    These changes didn't touch anything with the achievements as they each granted a single rank of an AA. What got changed was what the AA itself rewarded and going from decreasing the reuse on a proc to increasing the power of a focus. None of that required them to touch any of the achievements..
  7. Pikollo Augur

    They didn't touch the achievements in a sense they changed the requirements. But they did from a programming stand point ya? Because they had to remove rewards. Earlier you said they wouldn't do it because it takes to much effort ya? But they already spent all the effort. All they gotta do is change a couple locations.

    Also its not about me. Its about all of us. Anyone who plays EQ on a TLP. Changing the order in which the achievements can be gained on a TLP effects every TLP player. That order is logically progressive. Putting the easier stuff before the harder stuff. Its not a feeling its the definition of progression. You don't start at level 50 and go back to 1 and get stronger. You start with baby steps until you get to the harder stuff and get the bigger reward.

    And yes it does make sense for a developer to take the time to consider if it makes sense or not. Do you know why? Because this is their game. This is their product they are selling us. Therefor it is their responsibility. And if they don't like it then ok. At least I tried for us right?
  8. Pikollo Augur

    Honestly McCarrin do you even know how hard it is to change the achievements or are you arguing because thats what you do? My guess is you have no clue if its an easy switch or not but you love to be right so you won't concede.
  9. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    They didn't change anything about the acheivements at all, how hard is that to understand? The only change was that banestrike was changed from a proc to a focus and the AA's got changed to increase the power of the focus instead of reducing the reuse of the proc. None of that required any work on the achievements and how you obtain them.

    And I am not making any claims about how hard or easy it would be to change the requirements for them just that their time would be better spent on other things,
  10. Pikollo Augur

    Did each sub achievement not reward you with a proc towards its target? Was that not in the reward section of them? Wouldn't that have to be removed?
  11. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    And none of that changed, what changed was the AA that got rewarded and the achievement still links to the same AA. Nothing about how any of those achievements had to change as part of this process.
  12. Pikollo Augur

    They still had to manually go through each one to make sure it wasn't activating a banestrike that wasn't there any more right? I see they didn't change the text of them. But they still had to do something internally since its a new aa.
  13. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Why would they have to manually go through the achievements to check anything? It is still giving the same reward of banestrike even if what that reward does has changed. And there is still a big difference between doing a test to make sure something still works and making changes to it.
  14. Captain Video Augur

    It's not a new AA. The Banestrike AA was added at the same time as the first set of Slayer achievements was added, in RoF, which was over 10 years ago now. The AA was automatically levelled in three steps by completing the three tiers of Slayer achievements. That is still how it works today. The change is that the assignment of damage is no longer specific to mob type. In the old system, a flag would be set for each mob type when you completed the "Progressive" tier for that mob type. When attacking something for which you had a banestrike flag, it would summon a virtual pet which would generate a proc which would run a script to calculate direct damage based on your player level. They've taken out the summon virtual pet spell, the proc and the script it ran. The mob type flags are now meaningless. Instead, damage is now calculated by applying a focus for a flat-rate % regardless of what you're attacking. The proc-based system had a cooldown timer, and by completing each of the three tiers of the Slayers, you reduced that timer, effectively generating a bit more damage if the fight lasted as long as a minute. Now, completing the Slayer tiers (in whatever order) increases the flat focus %. It's less math for essentially the same (miniscule) damage bonus. It costs melee classes the ability to use it as an aggro tool, but hardly anyone seems to care about that. Otherwise, the change to this new system should be essentially transparent to the player.

    Everything you've tried to argue about how TLPs can't unlock the Slayer achievements in some preferred order you think is better, it applied equally to the old system. So why are you suddenly complaining about it now? Have you been bewitched by the false math that makes you think since 4% is double 2%, it's going to somehow be double damage? The % is a focus that is applied to some components of damage calculation, but not all, so you're not actually getting a full 2% or 4% (or 7 or 10%) increase in total damage. If you want to argue hard numbers, show us before and after parse data. Several veteran players, more experienced than I, ran parses on Test, and they were discussed in the test patch thread. I'm basing my opinion on the parse data I've seen, which you've clearly never looked at.

    So no, they didn't need to manually go through each achievement; they took out one summon virtual pet spell, and that was that.

    Wrong. Players who participate in the Discord know a whole lot more about what the company is thinking and doing than you do. And you're absolutely right that it's not equal footing. Guild leaders have a lot more say and influence on the dev team than the rest of the population. I have news for you, it's been like that since the game first launched. And it's also like that in every other major MMO in the industry. I am not a guild leader, and I've never claimed to have that kind of influence.

    Development time is a scarce resource in this game; it's a small team with a small budget. I don't know what their current to-do list looks like, but I know there are at least 1000 things on it. No matter how logical you might think some idea of yours is, it still takes more than logic to get it placed higher than #1001 on the list. Credibility and long-term experience with the process both go a long way.
  15. Pikollo Augur

    You two get so mad at people that suggest things lol. I’ve always agreed that people like me won’t have the ear of a dev. I’ve said I hold no illusions anything would change any time I suggest something. But you two still gotta be in every post downing everyone’s idea that’s not your own. I don’t understand you guys. Brown nosing? I dunno. If you don’t like a suggestion then just say it. You don’t want to see things like this come about for your own reasons and that’s fine. But stop arguing with people that do want to see it and have their own opinions.

    So once again I’ll say. It’s not that the order makes sense to ME. It that’s it makes sense in general. Progression starts at the bottom. So the order suggested would be the proper order. IF it wasn’t to much effort. IF it were possible to do. Then why not do it? It helps those of us on TLPs make new chars and progress them. I don’t care if the 4% is minuscule. If it were changed around it wouldn’t hurt anyone. More people would be inclined to do it. That’s the point right? Getting people to do the things in their game?
  16. FranktheBank Augur

    I dont know what people like CV and Waring choose the strangest and dumbest hills to die on. This is a very low stakes request. There is no downside. If it's a easy edit for them, then why not? If it's difficult, oh well, nothing lost

    Not even QoL request needs to reee''d at by you people. Take a second, thing about the stakes of the argument.
    yepmetoo, Pikollo, Crabman and 3 others like this.
  17. coltongrundy Augur

    Progressive & Highly Decorative are both VoA. I think the reason you said TDS is because of dinosaurs, but that is optional and is not required to complete the Progressive achievement.

    Everything that comes in expansions later than VoA are optional:
    • (Optional) Complete the achievement "In Your Eyes" (Fire Elves)
    • (Optional) Complete the achievement "Achievement: Spider-Bear" (Ursarachnids)
    • (Optional) Complete the achievement "Shadows of Lxanvom" (Xulous)
    • (Optional) Complete the achievement "Dino-sore!" (Ankylosauruses, Triceratopses, Tyrannosauruses)
    • (Optional) Complete the achievement "Reader's Die Jest" (Book Dervishes and Book Minions)
    • (Optional) Complete the achievement "Witch Mount?" (Broom Minions)
    Pikollo and MustardonWatermelon like this.
  18. Pikollo Augur

    You are correct. I forgot the post voa were optional. I don’t have the game open at the moment but I think that means they would only have to move one? Achievement? Which makes this suggestion way easier to do.
  19. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Having any of these achievements being possible before RoF (L100) is only going to make the power creep problem worse on TLP.

    For any expansion which currently has MoTM on any raid targets none of the major parts of the Slayer achievements (that grant a damage boost) should be possible at all.
    Waring_McMarrin likes this.
  20. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Repeatedly making the same suggestion to change achievements even though it provides no real benefit to players just because they think it makes more sense and makes it easier on the TLP servers? All I see it being is pointless work and time that the devs could better spend elsewhere.