Comments on Beimeith's Lore Thread Go Here

Discussion in 'Guide Events, Lore, and Roleplay' started by Beimeith, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. Kolani Augur

    Isn't Xulous from EQ2 lore though? I pretty much consider all EQ2 lore as drunken fan fiction.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  2. Beimeith Augur

    EQ2 expanded on it, as did EQOA, but it is actually a part of EQ1 lore. There are 2 in-game lore books as well as official lore website postings on it. necrop
  3. Zahrym Augur

    In the eq2 storyline (I only played original + first xpac) Nagafen was caged inside of a lair in SolB whilst Vox was a 'Ghost' or shell of her previous self in open world content, the only thing Nagafen would say (in-game) was that he was imprisoned for fathering the 'great chromatic sleeper' which I assumed was kerafym, but was not around long enough to see if he came into the game. So I've always been curious, this was good information though.
  4. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    You sure it was Chromatic? Because Kerafrym is Prismatic.
  5. Zahrym Augur

    Pretty sure he said Chromatic, but it's been years
  6. Mellifleur Augur

    you fixed it ;)
  7. Axxius Augur

    Wasn't Ankexfen just a name for the original goblin race? Before they got cursed.
  8. Beimeith Augur

    The story of the creation of the four goblin tribes

    This ancient tale of a civilization long since forgotten by the name of Ankexfen was handed down to me by a visiting priestess in Najena by the name of Aerthane D’Zitherak, a Priestess of Innoruuk, and seeker of the Fabled and Ancient Staff of Ankexfen.

    Long ago, there existed a race known as the Ankexfen, after their progenitor Hazeg Ankexfen, who were created by Rallos Zek during the Elder Age. This race was quite intelligent and cunning.

    They quickly expanded their knowledge of magic and the other planes, yet constantly yearned for more power. So, along with their ogre counterparts, they set out to master the Plane of Earth. Alas, their attempts proved futile and the combined might of the other gods forced Rallos Zek back to the Planes of Power, leaving his creations to the whims of the other gods. ‘

    The wrath of the unnamed gods was grim. Thousands of ogres were instantly slain – their empire left to crumble under the hand of retribution. The giants were flung across the face of Norrath like seeds to the wind. The Ankexfen’s fate was more severe. The entire race was exterminated, but from the ashes were born the four goblin races. Exactly how this happened is unknown. But what is known is that each goblin clan was stripped of any knowledge and was neither informed of the other clans nor of their origins. Each clan was then transported to a separate environment to help preserve the gods’ will.

    However, the gods were not without mercy and each clan was granted a section of the staff. Upon each staff, a crystal was adorned. These staves served to aid the goblin clans in understanding their environment. These remnants of the Staff of Ankexfen combine to create the fabled and powerful Staff of Ankexfen
  9. Axxius Augur

    ^So it still fits that Ankexfen were the original goblins. Intelligent and cunning. Participated in the PoE invasion along with the ogres - you can see goblins mixed in with ogres in Murdunk's army in Korascian Warrens. They are casters, some even in commanding roles. Goblins in their present form didn't exist yet, Ankexfen did. And there is nobody else there in KW who could be the Ankexfen.

    Says exactly that goblins were born 'from the ashes' of Ankexfen and 'stripped of any knowledge'. A race created from scratch would not have any knowledge to begin with. I guess 'exterminated' here doesn't mean a full genocide but rather that most were slain and the survivors transformed, and no true Ankexfen left.

    Also, the retribution against Rallos and his creations was not only by the Rathe. I remember reading somewhere that it was by multiple gods' combined power, not unlike the action against Zebuxoruk. The Rathe was weakened by the invasion and the loss of their 13th member, they wouldn't have the power to banish Rallos to Plane of War, lock him there and then wreck his Norrathian races while he was unable to interfere. They had help from the other gods who were infuriated (and scared) by the deicide he committed.

    Btw, how long did Rallos remain locked in his plane after that, and when did he return? He wasn't a major player on Norrath for quite a while. Eventually the wars Norrathian races waged brought him back. Somewhere around Sullon's time?
  10. Beimeith Augur

    Well, it all depends on how you want to interpret it. Other versions of the Invasion/Curse lore simply say that the curse of the goblins was so horrible it is never spoken of and was blocked from their minds. If it was simply a transformation of them from intelligent powerful beings into stupid weak little things, that would not make it -that- horrible as that is in effect exactly what was done to the Giants and the Ogres, and that is well known.

    The problem really is there are very few references to the Ankexfen. Nearly all lore refers to the goblins as goblins, even when talking about their creation and existence prior to the war and curse. This makes sense from a lore perspective considering the "true" story was supposed to be nearly lost to history as no one remembered/speaks of it.

    However, this also means that it is less known to the EQ dev team, and they make mistakes. This would not be the only problem with SoD events disagreeing with older, established lore:

    For example, it was clearly stated in lore that Eriak Zek was the son of Rallos who led the first invasion of the Plane of Earth. His failure to conquer the Rathe led Rallos to strip him of his powers and split them between two of his generals, Tallon and Vallon, who assisted him in the second invasion. However, in the SoD raids all three are present during the first invasion and they have their full powers.

    While it is possible to simply say that the events in SoD were a ret-con of the story, or that by Discord mucking around in time it screwed up the original story, etc. All of those seem cheap explanations for something much simpler: The devs didn't know the lore and made things based on what they knew which was imperfect. That isn't a dig at them or anything, it happens, they're humans, and most probably don't even care about lore.

    What it does mean is there is a conflict in the story, as there often is. My goal in making this was to present a consistent story that makes sense. To do this I have to pick and choose which versions of things I go with based on what I think makes the most sense. In the case of the above two conflicts, I went with the older pre-SoD lore as that makes a more logical story. Older lore often makes more consistent sense as it was all fresh, where as now half of it is forgotten.

    As to the curse, there are multiple versions, some say that it was the Rathe alone, others say it was all four of the Elemental gods. I went with the Rathe alone simply because more sources say that. What they do agree on is that the four Elemental Gods created a Barrier around the Planes of Power (Elemental Planes) that kept out mortals AND the lesser gods to prevent another invasion. Rallos wasn't imprisoned in the Plane of War, he was just locked out of the Elemental Planes. (And yes, I know the above story I posted says he was forced back to the "Planes of Power," it should have been Planes of Influence. As I said, the stories often conflict and contain errors).
  11. Axxius Augur

    Another missing part about the RZ vs Rathe war: King Beltron of the Valdeholm giants refused to answer Rallos' call and bring his people to the 2nd PoE invasion. For that his tribe was spared by the other gods and was not affected by the curse. However, upon his return to Norrath, Rallos cursed them to turn into Shades after death.
  12. Axxius Augur

    IMO the version that the Ankexfen were the original goblins before the Curse makes more sense than that it was a mystery race that we've never seen (even though we time-travelled to the PoE invasion), that was exterminated without any remains, and then goblins were created mysteriously. No?
  13. Beimeith Augur

    Where is the Frostcrypt lore from? I did not see any mention of that when I was looking through TSS lore. All that was really mentioned was Ashengate / Drakkin / Dragon lore.

    There isn't really an argument of whether the Ankexfen were the original goblins, the issue is whether they were merely transformed or not. The Guktan were Frogloks that were evolved, but were still just transformed Frogloks.

    Were the Ankexfen a more evolved form of Goblin that were devolved into Goblins, or were they a race that was destroyed, and the energy/magic that destroyed them unintentionally mixed with the magic that created them to created the Goblins? A strict reading of the lore gives you the second version. This to me is supported by other other lore that suggests their fate was so horrible it isn't recorded in history. A "mere" devolving shouldn't result in a name change, (Guktans are still Frogloks), nor should it be considered so terrible that it would be stricken from all history.

    Keep in mind also that this isn't all that different in principle than the Riftseekers which were originally single beings that were split in two to curb their power. If the Ankexfen were powerful enough that they were a part of the army, (weaklings were left behind), it is possible that the Rathe split them _intentionally_ into the four goblin tribes for the same reason, and wiped the knowledge so that they would not try to recombine. This theoretical intentional splitting could over time have been mis-remebered into it being unintentional/accidental. Remember that the Staff of Ankexfen is supposed to be created by the combination of items from all 4 Goblin tribes. This would also support that idea of a splitting instead of a 1 -> 1 conversion.

    Using SoD lore as a basis for anything is shaky due to the numerous issues with it.
  14. Khoza Augur indicates that Rallos cursed them.

  15. Axxius Augur

    Vol. 1:

    And there were more books on it, and I think King Odeen or some Valdeholm nobles talk about how and why Beltron betrayed Rallos Zek too. Will have to look again.

    Something like this: Belron Wulfnor he was the king of the Krithgor tribe. They fought in the 1st war, suffered great losses. When Rallos called them up for the 2nd war, Beltron refused to bring his people, and thus saved his tribe from the curse of the elemental gods. But Rallos didn't forget or forgive. He waited centuries (how Innoruuk of him!), and when Beltron died he took his revenge.
  16. Beimeith Augur

    Yeah I just went through all the lore books in Crescent Reach. I still need to decide what all of it I want to add in, but it's on the list of changes.
  17. Khoza Augur

  18. Beimeith Augur

    Yep. There was more than just that one as well. There was also a contradiction about the relationship between Dyn'leth and Lethar as well, but minor details such as those are not really that important to the narrative. Even as long as it is it is still supposed to be a summary, heh.
  19. Caudyr Augur

    While this is true for the most part, isn't Dyn`Leth a elf/dragon hybrid? After all, I could've sworn Vel`Dyn or whatever the person's name was, was an elf...though I could very easily be wrong about that. *shrugs*
  20. Beimeith Augur

    Dyn'leth is an elf/dragon hybrid and the drakkin are human/dragon. There isn't _really_ that much difference between them imo.
    Mellifleur likes this.

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