[CLR] New spell lineups?

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Sirene_Fippy, Nov 10, 2014.

  1. Sirene_Fippy Okayest Bard

    I'm curious what kind of spell lineups you are using since TDS release, and am looking for feedback. Here's mine:

    Raid:
    1. Graceful Remedy
    2. Spritual Remedy (will swap with Graceful Remedy with Rk 2 upgrade)
    3. Mystical Intervention
    4. Fraught Renewal (will swap with new spell with Rk 2 upgrade)
    5. Ward of Surety
    6. Glorious Judgment
    7. Word of Greater Reformation
    8. Convalescent Splash
    9. Issuance of Spirit
    10. Shining Bulwark
    11. Syllable of Convalescence
    12. Divine Indemnification
    Group:
    1. Graceful Remedy
    2. Spiritual Remedy
    3. Mystical Intervention
    4. Virtuous Intervention
    5. Elysian Intervention
    6. Glorious Judgment
    7. Glorious Rebuke
    8. Ardent Contravention
    9. Word of Greater Reformation / random stuff
    10. Shining Bulwark
    11. Syllable of Convalescence
    12. Divine Indemnification
    On raids, I am using Fervid Renewal for Void - with 38 cure counters we can twincast cure the DT in one cast which is nice. Otherwise, I've been sticking with the level 100 version.

    I initially thought with TDS I would be casting only 2x Remedy, but soon found tanks occasionally need much larger heals. So I keep a couple of them up for when I feel it's needed.

    I also have a general question about how focus degradation works.
    My current heal focus is Ryzok's Restoration II (50-100% to 103 spells)
    Is this thinking correct -

    104 spell:

    0.95 * 50 to 0.95 * 100 = 47.5% to 95% = 71% average

    105 spell:

    0.95 * 47.5 to 0.95 * 95 = 45% to 90% = 67% average

    Thanks for any info/feedback.
  2. Brohg Augur

    It's my understanding that focus degrades based on the base values, not cumulatively.

    105 spell:
    0.9*50 to 0.9*100 = 45 to 90 = 67% average

    Not much difference unless you keep wearing the focus to & past 110, but more correct.
  3. Crystilla Augur

    Brohg is correct in that you don't degrade off the degrade. It's a 10% reduction (at level 105) to the original values (so .90 * 50% ... .90 * 100). Then average the 45 to io ((45+90)/2) and truncate that. So 67%.
  4. Crystilla Augur

    For a lineup right now I'm only 102 but will be using 2 remedies (graceful, spiritual) and 2 renewals (right now fraught/fervent but will be fraught/new version when I hit level for it). I always keep up the group heal with cure, single target elixir, group elixir and the ___ intervention as my standard heal choices.
  5. Nylrem Augur

    Unless you're using either 4 interventions or 3 F_ Renewals in addition to both Remedies, you will have some downtime, when single target healing.

    I also have noticed wanting to land a few bigger heals when spamming Remedies occasionally, so have set up an alternate keypress multibind skipping the Remedies and just with bigger heals. Because I do that, I want one available, any time I hit it, so probably use more single target heals than most. Also, we usually have assigned buffs, so have little need to keep more than 1 buff mem'd usually.

    My normal raid lineup, during event:

    1 Ward of Surety
    2 Graceful Remedy
    3 Spiritual Remedy
    4 Mystical Intervention
    5 Virtuous Intervention
    6 Elysian Intervention
    7 Fraught
    8 Fervid (still .1s longer cast time than Fraught, for me)
    9 Frenzied
    10 Syllable of Convalescence
    11 Word of Reformation (not willing to use Greater Reformation until get new boots for spell haste to bring back to where it should be, for cast time)
    12 Assigned buff (default to SB)

    I have my spam multibind set to gems 2-9 ('A')

    I have an alternate keypress multibind set to gems 4-9 ('Z') for when it seems target needs bigger heals, remedies not cutting it.

    I have Syllable and Word set to another multibind for group heals ('Q')

    I have raid T2 boots, but if I didn't my spell choices would be a bit different, I would use older spells instead of newer ones, if they did not have same cast time.

    I dislike group heals of any type, and only cast when absolutely necessary.

    While under Celestial Rapidity and using Remedies, I can get all the way through Fervid in my spam multibind, when spamming single target heals. Unless under rapidity though, Fervid and Frenzied at least, are available when target seeming to need bigger heals than Remedies may provide. Easily get all the way through Fraught, though, when spamming this multibind. I don't see how anyone can not use at LEAST 3 other single target heals, besides Remedies and that's if only using F_ Renewals - using Interventions, you need at least 4 single target heals in addition to Remedies, to max heals.

    It is my guess, that until get TDS BP or Spiritual Remedy Rk. III, that Graceful will continue to be higher heals than Spiritual. Not sure on that though.

    My goal is to cast as many single target heals as possible, during any given timeframe, on my target. I often cast more than 200% more heals than other clerics in guild, and parse more than 300% better on MT heal parse. (not the be-all end all, I know, but does indicate the effectiveness of healing this way, to a large extent)
  6. Crystilla Augur

    I've been adapting a little bit with some options here (over the past few months).

    I did create one multibind but only including 4 spells on it (due to the role I typically play and how we handle events which would be VERY bad to include interventions in it). Spiritual remedy, graceful remedy, fraught renewal, fervent renewal - I'm not 105 yet for fervid.

    So I'll use that when I can, otherwise if I do use my one hotkey it goes spiritual remedy, fraught renewal, graceful remedy, fervent renewal (and after that will spiritual, graceful, intervention to finish off the cycle as needed).

    And manually I'll typically follow the multibind if I manually hit keys and add in my other heal spells if needed.

    Only one other healer in guild even uses a hotkey of spells (and no one uses multibinds) so I need to keep things somewhat flexible as I try to gently coax others a little bit further down the path (light is still a dominant spell by many to give an example).
  7. Nylrem Augur

    I'm not real sure how interventions could possibly be considered bad, unless you're dealing with adds that are being mez'd or offrooted? Which, of course, there are many events that have those mechanics in them, at least during part of the event. For those events, or portions of events, I use just Remedies and F_ Renewals, of course.

    We kite many mobs in Bixie 1, even, and so far the limited amount that Interventions do actually nuke the target has not started them summoning their kiters.

    Interventions are faster cast than F_ Renewals, and heal for more, for their respective levels. So. unless cures are absolutely necessary to be spammed on the target as well, Interventions are better heals than their F_ Renewal counterparts.

    IMO, not using interventions, when they can be used, is decreasing healing output by a significant amount.

    And, IMO, any cleric that is level 101 or higher, with 2 available Remedies, should never use Light again.
  8. Clarisa Augur

    Raid:

    1. Reforming Splash Rk. III (I swap in buffs like Shining Bulwark for this when necessary)
    2. Divine Indemnification Rk. I
    3. Ward of Surety Rk. I
    4. Mystical Intervention Rk. I
    5. Virtuous Intervention Rk. III
    6. Spiritual Remedy Rk. I
    7. Graceful Remedy Rk. III
    8. Fervid Renewal Rk. I
    9. Fraught Renewal Rk. III
    10. Fervent Renewal Rk. III
    11. Syllable of Convalescence Rk. II
    12. Word of Reformation Rk. III (for its shorter cast time)

    The healing rotation I've been using for single target healing is: Spiritual -> Graceful -> Mystical -> Spiritual -> Graceful -> Virtuous -> Spiritual -> Graceful -> Fervid -> Spiritual -> Graceful -> Fraught


    If it's a heavy crowd control event, I skip the Interventions and use only Renewals: Spiritual -> Graceful -> Fervid -> Spiritual -> Graceful -> Fraught -> Spiritual -> Graceful -> Fervent


    If there isn't much healing support outside of the group, I go back to last expansion's rotation to get to the bigger heals sooner: Spiritual -> Mystical -> Spiritual -> Virtuous -> Spiritual -> Fervid -> Spiritual -> Fraught -> Spiritual -> Fervent


    I also have a spell set with Elysian and Celestial Interventions in place of Fraught and Fervent Renewal for harder hitting mobs and with that I use: Spiritual -> Graceful -> Mystical -> Spiritual -> Graceful -> Virtuous -> Spiritual -> Graceful -> Elysian -> Spiritual -> Graceful -> Celestial

    On events where I don't use the Interventions, I swap in more support spells or Glorious Rebuke to twincast Remedies or Splash. I don't use Elixirs because we have too many Shamans who would overwrite it with theirs and Celestial Regeneration provides enough of an HoT for most events. I also don't use spell Yaulp because most events are over before I'm even close to going OOM.

    Group:

    When I melee, I use:

    1. Shining Bulwark Rk. I
    2. Yaulp XIV Rk. I
    3. Spiritual Remedy Rk. I
    4. Ardent Light Rk. I
    5. Glorious Rebuke Rk. III
    6. Mystical Intervention Rk. I
    7. Virtuous Intervention Rk. III
    8. Ardent Contravention Rk. I
    9. Virtuous Contravention Rk. III
    10. Elysian Contravention Rk. III
    11. Celestial Contravention Rk. III
    12. Word of Reformation Rk. III

    The healing rotation I use here is: Target Mob -> Ardent C -> Virtuous C -> Elysian C -> Celestial C -> Glorious -> Target Tank -> Mystical -> Virtuous I -> (Remedy -> Light if it seems necessary in the small delay before the first C is up again)

    Otherwise, I use the raid lineup with Ardent Acquittal (the "Elixir of the Seas" is worse other than mana cost) instead of Splash and Glorious instead of Ward of Surety.

    Using multibinds isn't really necessary, it just makes it easier because you don't have to think about what you're going to cast. If you know what you're doing and have the spell rotations/cycles in mind already (along with a UI that places all single target heals in close proximity), you can achieve the same rate of healing as someone using a multibind.

    So if you have a cleric who is reluctant to use a multibind, have them memorize the spells needed and walk them through casting them in a rotation like Spiritual -> Graceful -> Fervid Renewal -> Spiritual -> Graceful -> Fraught Renewal -> Spiritual -> Graceful -> Fervent Renewal as long as they can maintain it. Once they see that they can keep it up without downtime, and that each of those spells is either faster or stronger than Light, it makes it easier to give Light up. They may at that point even be willing to use the multibind to automate the process.

    They aren't, but for most it's simply the loss of control that is the problem. Once the spell is cast, the target could target a mob about to be mez'd or a mob that hasn't been aggro'd, and the cleric is put in danger. Most clerics are cautious by nature, so the uncertainty leads them to err on the side of caution and just not use them on raids.

    I remember encouraging a cleric app to use them on raids and after she accidentally broke a mez and was admonished for it by others, she never used them again. It does require some practice and forethought to use these spells (you have to know who is a safe target and what they will be doing during an event) and sometimes you will get yourself in trouble using them, but that's what fade, multiple enchanters, and understanding/smart raid leaders are for. The benefit far outweighs the risk once you're experienced enough in their use.

    Fraught Renewal Rk. III CLR/100 1: Increase Hitpoints by 16991 (Type 3 increases it by 809)
    2: Decrease Poison Counter by 36
    3: Decrease Disease Counter by 36
    4: Decrease Curse Counter by 36
    Casting Time: 3 (1.8 with 100 raid spell haste focus)

    Mystical Intervention Rk. II CLR/103 1: Increase Hitpoints by 17196
    2: Add Effect: Mystical Intervention Strike II
    1928 Alteration Single
    Casting Time: 1.5

    Fervid Renewal CLR/105 1: Increase Hitpoints by 17841 (Type 3 increases it by 937)
    2: Decrease Poison Counter by 38
    3: Decrease Disease Counter by 38
    4: Decrease Curse Counter by 38
    Casting Time: 3 (1.9 with 103 raid spell haste focus)

    I'm assuming that most raid clerics will get Mystical Intervention Rk. II long before they ever get Rk. III of it or Fervid Renewal unless their guild offers spells via DKP or random rolls.

    Interventions are faster to cast (by .3 or .4 seconds), but they aren't stronger. Interventions only have a higher base heal amount compared to older renewals (new ones always have more) and even then, they don't get Type 3 augs to boost it or benefit from Sanctified Blessing procs that add an additional heal (which is pretty significant and more frequent now).

    I agree, but this is a difficult thing to accomplish given the history of Light use and the convenience it offers compared to other healing strategies. It also, admittedly, is more mana-efficient for clerics whose guilds struggle with DPS and take a long time to complete events. That may not be viable for much longer, though, as more recent events are designed to be defeated in a certain amount of time and actively discourage things like pet tanking and kiting, which guilds may have used to extend events to make up for not having as much DPS, and have more mana drains and mechanics which punish players for hoarding mana.

    There are also many guilds who don't parse their healers, so clerics don't have a basis for comparison with other clerics and may think what they are doing is as effective as what the other clerics are doing. Even guilds who do parse might have older, established clerics who used to raid when it was our primary heal and are reluctant to change. That can make it difficult to get new clerics to change (if so-and-so long time cleric is still using it, what reason do I have to change?).

    I hope it changes, though, and I try to convince clerics who are open to trying new things. I have, though, given up on some who I feel are comfortable with what they're doing and are reluctant to change.
    Brohg and Marshall Maathers like this.
  9. Ravengloome Augur


    Well ill keep that in mind the next time I have to heal you because you forgot to heal yourself :p
  10. Nylrem Augur

    I am pretty terrible at that, admittedly :)

    I need to find a UI that puts myself in the group window as well, I know there are some out there.

    Test server is different, BTW. Most the clerics in LoB are pretty good about max healing. It's the clerics in my Rathe server guild that could heal more. Some, a lot more.

    As has always been the case, as an average, Test server raiders are a good bit better than the average live server raider. Decreased numbers and attempting to do events with much less numbers than they are designed for REQUIRE increased performance. Test has always been a breeding ground for exceptional raiders. Beating Tower in SoD with 23-24 players when it was current was some of my best raiding times.

    When many TSFers moved to live, we were taking out House Upper with as few as 8 players, when it was still current, only weeks after our guild was wiping to it with 36 or more for alt raids...

    Also, you're right Clarisa, I should have worded that differently about Interventions vs. F_ Renewals.

    Interventions heal for better HP per second of cast time, by a significant amount (about 9%), than their F_ Renewal counterparts.

    However, that doesn't really matter, most of the time.

    A cleric's average heal, that they ACTUALLY heal a single target for, is only about 30k or less, for most raid events...

    It's very rare than any 'big' heal (such as any Intervention or any F_ Renewal) will actually land on a target for it's full amount that it could actually heal for.

    So, if a level 93 Intervention is going to top a target off 98% of the time, then, since it's faster casting by .3 seconds than ANY F_ Renewal spell, why shouldn't all clerics use it, before using ANY F_ Renewal spell, if cures aren't needed?
  11. Crystilla Augur

    I agree with a lot but from my own experiences and parses for my guild, the one thing I disagree with (just mean it doesn't apply here to us) is that heal average hit amount. It's much higher in my personal experience. A lot of that will depend on how raids are done (for example guilds that can stun bubble AE kill will see much different experiences than guilds that kill 1-2 mobs at a time - guilds with organized healing will see different from 'everyone for themself non-organized aka no assignments - long duration fights will see different numbers than shorter fights by the higher guilds - knight healing will see different heal patterns/numbers than warriors tanking the main boss and so on).
  12. Ravengloome Augur


    There USED to be quite a few that just spammed light and remedy. or just cast group heals and like never single target healed.

    Shaming and Public humiliation works well on slackers though! They either get better or quit.

    As far as the methodology of what your saying

    I always had my cleric set up with 3 keys for spamming

    1) Remedy
    2) Interventions
    3) Renewals

    and then i made a judgement call based on where the tanks HP bar was and where i felt the next round was going to land during the cast time.

    At the end of a night my cast parse might have been a few casts shy of another cleric, but I almost always was higher on heal parses. Because timing comes into the equation quite often. and anticipation of how the flow of damage going onto the tank was.

    EX: sometimes you want your heal to land before a round, sometimes immediatelly after.

    However i agree with Crystilla, alot of this has to do with your heal teams cohesion and what tank they are healing.

    Warriors take damage differently then knights and so your heal strategy has to be different. Its far more consistent.

    Paladins have heal modifiers going when they tank so you would almost always want to use the quickest casting smaller base heals (because they will get overdriven by the heal mods)

    SKs basically have god mode self healing if there are more then 1 mob in the DZ (if your stacking bosses/adds so they can take advantage of bonds/AE taps)

    And then you have to factor in your team mates on the heal team

    Are you healing with Druids?
    Is your heal partner a Paladin?
    Is your heal partner a Shaman?
    Is your heal partner another cleric? Do they use the same cast set up you do? or can you rely on them to just spam light?

    The way you approach all of those scenarios is different. It affects what your cast order is even if only ever so slightly.

    From one guild to another my clerics regular "rotation" would vary greatly.

    Sometimes Renewals would take precedence before Interventions because of the situation Crystilla alluded to, Sometimes you NEED bigger heals (which they supply), becuase your heal team is light, or your split raiding or an undisced tank is tanking, or undergeared. Etc

    Hell On some events i Used that Syllable group heal in my regular rotation, because we had 2 or even 3 Tanks in my group tanking at once, and it has 1.8s cast time (same as a renewal).
  13. Nylrem Augur

    Crystilla,

    You're saying, that if you, using gamparse 1.0.5, and parsing your heals, if you do a combine for an entire raid night, all mobs on all events, add up the total heals that you healed for all characters that you know you directly healed, and divided that total number by the amount of casts you had....

    That it equals more than 30k average per heal?

    Today's raid, I did 15.1 mil hp total healed, in 3.5 events (first was a wipe halfway through).

    893 total casts, 142 casts were various buffs, rez, VP, QM, fade, clickies, etc, that were not heals.

    So, I really healed 15.1 million HP, total, divided by 751 heals casted, for an average of barely over 20k, per heal. And, we were a little light on healers at the start even.

    Are you absolutely positive your heals really average more than 30k per cast, or are you just guessing they do?
    Iila likes this.
  14. Crystilla Augur

    Does it every night? To be honest, I don't check this all the time. But did a major check from January - March 2014, and another one March - September. And a final more recent one.

    It really depends what % of your spells are the remedies (versus other ones) and the reason I'd used those cutoffs is because my spell sets changed drastically on each one.

    My current average is usually in the 35k-40k range when I've checked. Remedies alone are where you mentioned (at 25k give or take) and renewals are about 28k. However I do use a lot of group heals other the other spell heals and that's what it seems is kicking me higher.

    Just did a parse off last night's raid (only raided 2 hours then logged for Walking Dead). Did 11,365,184 in heals and cast 339 heals.

    Spiritual Remedy - 126 = 37%
    Graceful Remedy - 72 = 21%
    Fraught Renewal - 36 = 11%
    Fervent Renewal - 35 = 10%
    Word of Reformation - 30 = 9%
    Virtuous Intervention - 19 = 6%
    Burst of Life - 8 = 2%
    Ardent Elixir - 7 = 2%
    Beacon of Life - 4 = 1%
    Celestial Regeneration - 1 = 0%
    Focused Celestial Regeneration - 1 = 0%

    Last night it did only hit 33.5k as my average per heal.

    79% of my spell casts were remedy/renewals but that only gave me 58% of my total amount healed.

    Something that is interesting and is why I don't run with 3 renewals - last night's max remedy healed for 70k. Last night's renewals healed for a max of 87.5k. For the extra mana and time, that is showing that other healers are helping keep the value of any of our heals lower than what the renewals are capable of (and goes to show it's better to use channeling the divine with the remedies and not the renewals for example, which was said on another of these threads).
  15. Sirene_Fippy Okayest Bard

    I'm likely preaching to the choir here, but wanted to share a heal parse from our last Arx 1 raid.

    Healing for: WAR -vs- Praetor Captain Tita Aragus:
    -- CLR1: 3580770 (77% Remedy)
    -- CLR2: 3184959 (71% Remedy)
    -- CLR3: 1926657 (69% Remedy)
    -- BST: 1403774
    -- SHM1: 1344165
    -- CLR4: 1193907 (95% Light)
    -- CLR5: 1068347 (91% Light)
    -- SHM2: 1005354

    Spells breakdown (direct healing spells only):

    CLR1 - 248 (77% Remedy)
    --- Convalescent Splash - 14
    --- Fraught Renewal Rk. III - 2
    --- Graceful Remedy Rk. III - 108
    --- Issuance of Spirit Rk. II - 3
    --- Mystical Intervention Rk. II - 5
    --- Spiritual Remedy Rk. II - 82
    --- Syllable of Convalescence Rk. II - 23
    --- Syllable of Renewal Rk. III - 6
    --- Word of Greater Reformation - 5

    CLR2 - 284 (71% Remedy)
    --- Elysian Intervention Rk. III - 23
    --- Fifteenth Emblem Rk. III - 3
    --- Graceful Remedy Rk. III - 111
    --- Mystical Intervention - 25
    --- Reverent Light Rk. III - 6
    --- Spiritual Remedy - 92
    --- Virtuous Intervention Rk. III - 24

    CLR3 - 164 (69% Remedy)
    --- Elysian Intervention Rk. III - 5
    --- Fervent Renewal Rk. III - 16
    --- Fraught Renewal Rk. II - 18
    --- Graceful Remedy Rk. III - 52
    --- Spiritual Remedy - 61
    --- Virtuous Intervention Rk. III - 8
    --- Word of Reformation Rk. II - 4

    CLR4 - 151 (95% Light)
    --- Elixir of the Acquittal Rk. III - 2
    --- Issuance of Grace Rk. II - 2
    --- Reverent Light Rk. II - 143
    --- Word of Reformation - 4

    CLR5 - 152 (91% Light)
    --- Promised Reformation Rk. III - 4
    --- Reverent Elixir Rk. III - 4
    --- Reverent Light Rk. III - 138
    --- Word of Renewal Rk. III - 6

    Regardless of other nuances in spell choices, primary use of Remedy yielded 2-4 times as much healing than Light. The clerics who are using light are being outhealed by a beastlord and shaman. Remedy far surpasses Light in efficiency because it is fast casting - in EQ's combat system, a large number of smaller heals is much more powerful than slower, bigger heals. Continuing to use Light in complete neglect of Remedy, is a very bad decision.

    I have an analogy for this situation. Imagine a large portion of wizards were continuously outdpsed by their classmates by over 200%. After looking at some parses, the wizards notice some of them are casting old, outdated spells that are not a very efficient use of time. Upon giving such feedback as to use different spells, these wizards continue to use the old spell, because it's what they've always done, because the RNG affects the way things turn out in parses, because they have other things to do during the raid that are important and that makes their parse look bad, because they didn't have the right xyz in their group, because the mob died so what difference does it really make. That is exactly the situation we are seeing with clerics. It makes me very sad, but hopefully more clerics will eventually come around.
    Brohg and Iila like this.
  16. Iila Augur

    Light, promised and elixer. The heals are coming, someday.
  17. dalead Elder

    Yeah, I've been trying to break my clerics out of using light, but old habits are hard to kick. Light is just such a horribly slow spell.

    I actually use the group elixir all the time, but mainly so I can forget about the rest of my group and focus on the tanks with remedy/renewals. It's usually enough to keep the rest of group up fine during a fight.
  18. Nylrem Augur

    dalead -

    Get your clerics organized in a Celestial Remedy rotation.

    Use Tranquil Blessing and MGB both, for each cleric to be able to Celestial Regen twice per event, allowing for mass HoTs, that can be cast BETWEEN single target heals during global cooldowns, that OUT HEAL elixirs, and DOUBLE the length of elixirs.

    6 clerics can keep 24 minutes of Celestial Regen on the ENTIRE raid, and sacrifice ZERO single target heals on the tanks.

    OR, in the same timeframe, 6 clerics can each cast 24 elixirs each, keeping a worse HoT on their groups than Celestial Regen, and sacrificing over 150 total single target heals (since most single target cast faster than elixir even) that should have been going to tanks.
  19. Crystilla Augur

    Just adding to this thread from last night's parse in case anyone finds it useful.

    This heal amount is only for the Prince part of Neriak 2 (not the entire raid). The first part is very skewed because I was on our root team with 2 other healers and I was helping a new to raiding healer most of the time so barely healed.

    Length of fight was 26 minutes for Prince Fight.
    Total healing I did was 12,479,899.
    Total amount of healing spells cast was 340.
    Total amount healed per cast = 36,705

    Spells cast:
    • Spiritual Remedy - 101
    • Graceful Remedy - 86
    • Fraught Renewal - 41
    • Word of Reformation - 40
    • Fervent Renewal - 31
    • Virtuous Intervention - 25
    • Divine Balance - 4
    • Burst of Life - 3
    • Divine Arbitration - 3
    • Issuance of Spirit - 3
    • Ardent Elixir - 1
    • Celestial Regeneration - 1
    • Flurry of Life - 1
    For perspective I was in the warrior group tanking Prince (versus where I normally am in a knight group where the heals are more concentrated around the knights and supplementary on the prince).

    ~~
    Interestingly the other cleric in group I was paired with is one who still uses light and here is the heal parse from the pally who was 4th tank on Prince (he was also in group).

    [Fri Nov 21 22:03:40 2014] PALLY 1 tells the group, '/1 Healing for: PALLY1 -vs- Combined: Prince Tarant Thex: -- ME: 2844463 -- LIGHT (in group cleric): 2740663 -- Cleric 3: 1662902 -- PALLY HIMSELF: 1042585 -- Cleric 4: 938224 -- Druid 1: 754472 -- Cleric 5: 556478 -- Shaman 1: 417397 -- Cleric 6 (boxed): 309273 -- Shaman 2: 208573 -- Divine Intervention: 174594 -- Shaman 3: 159915 -- Shaman 4: 146251 -- Shaman 5: 61679 -- Druid 2: 58673 -- Unknown: 51000 -- Pally 2: 41684 -- Pally 3: 20126 -- Warrior 1 (in group/DA/DB): 15102 -- Warrior 2 (in group/DA/DB): 10127 -- Beastlord 1: 2601 -- Warrior 3 (in group/DA/DB): 1758'

    My manually cast rotation on this tried to stick with spiritual remedy, graceful remedy, fraught renewal, spiritual remedy, graceful remedy, fervent renewal, virtous intervention, spiritual remedy, graceful remedy ... then repeating all of that chain.' And threw in issuance of grace, forceful rejuvenation, issuance of grace (after all the MT's discs had worn off and we were on round 2 of tanking without them), and a 3rd issuance earlier in the fight.

    I asked the cleric what she was mostly casting and she said this.

    [Fri Nov 21 22:06:35 2014] CLERIC 2 tells you, 'i wasn't far behind you'
    [Fri Nov 21 22:07:25 2014] CLERIC 2 tells you, 'light , and the 2 remedies and pr and fraught , i think'
    [Fri Nov 21 22:08:06 2014] CLERIC 2 tells you, 'but light still heal a lot for me , but maybe it is just habbit'
    [Fri Nov 21 22:09:12 2014] CLERIC 2 tells you, 'i also put hots when no cr is running '
  20. Ravengloome Augur

    I think that paladin needs to learn how to actively self heal. Theres no forseeable reason where he shouldnt have been = to your healing or greater then it, especially if Boss tanking with cooldowns going =/.

    Sorry to derail there.