[CLR] BP suggestions

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Sirene_Fippy, Jan 14, 2017.

  1. Sirene_Fippy Augur

    What kind of BP focus and clicky do you guys want to see in the next expansion?
    Same one? Old one? New idea? Please give your feedback, it will be passed on to the devs.

    Some guidelines -
    - Top 3 spell choices for focusing are suggested.
    - Focuses that impact usability of any spells/abilities are good (ex: heal/dmg focus %, spell haste, reduced timer, extended duration)
    - Wanting same as existing BP is fine

    For reference, the current focus:
    [47143] CLR Spiritual Remedy Healing 7
    1: Increase Base Spell Effectiveness by 7%
    2: Limit Spells: Inspired Heal
    3: Limit Class: CLR
    4: Limit Min Mana Cost: 100
    5: Limit Spells: Inspired Heal
    6: Limit Spells: Inspired Heal
    7: Limit Spells: Earnest Remedy
    8: Limit Spells: Devout Remedy
    9: Limit Spells: Solemn Remedy
    Increases the base healing of Spiritual Remedy by #1%.

    Current clicky:
    [47146] Empyreal Salvation
    Target: Caster Group
    Range: 100', AE Range: 200'
    Casting: 1s
    Duration: 54s (9 ticks), Extendable: No, Dispelable: Yes
    4: Increase Current HP by 6500 per tick
    Text: A supernal glow washes over you as you begin to regenerate.
    Rejuvenates your party, healing each member for #4 every six seconds for %z.

    My personal opinion on CLR BPs -
    Focus is good, would be nice to have 8%. Remedy is a tiny heal in the healing spell world (but fast, so I love it anyway).

    Clicky -
    I'm probably gonna get in trouble for this, but I really like the CotF focus clicky and would love to see an upgrade:
    [39322] Wrath of Marr
    Target: Self
    Duration: 5m (50 ticks), Extendable: Yes
    1: Decrease Healing by 75% (Before Crit)
    3: Limit Effect: Current HP
    5: Limit Type: Beneficial
    7: Cast: Wrath of Marr
    Text: You become a vessel for the wrath of Marr.
    Channeling the anger of Marr reduces your heals by #1% while increasing your spell damage by 75%.

    [39323] Wrath of Marr
    Duration: 5m (50 ticks), Extendable: Yes
    1: Increase Spell Damage by 75% (Before DoT Crit)
    2: Limit Max Level: 100 (lose 5% per level)
    3: Limit Effect: Current HP
    5: Limit Type: Detrimental
    6: Limit Target: Exclude Caster AE
    The anger of Marr increases your spell damage by #1%.

    Now, the current clicky is fine too, it's just sort of "meh" to me as we have so many healing adventures already.

    As another idea, here's the clicky from the RoF BP:
    [37301] Empyrean Blessing
    Target: Self
    Duration: 2.5m (25 ticks), Extendable: Yes
    Max Hits: 25 Matching Spells
    1: Increase Healing by 4000 (After Crit)
    2: Limit Max Level: 100 (lose 10% per level)
    3: Limit Effect: Current HP
    5: Limit Type: Beneficial
    Text: Silvery light engulfs you.
    A holy blessing increases the amount of your heals by #1.

    I kind of liked this one too, more than the HoT BPs anyway.

    So my personal suggestions:
    - Focus: 8% Remedy Focus
    - Clicky:
    1. Wrath of Marr (spell damage focus buff)
    2. Empyrean Blessing (flat heal amount bonus, limited # of charges)
  2. Brohg Augur

    Agree with both. Remedy focus is great, hot clicky is silly.

    Charge limitation on RoF BP was annoying, would rather just have a fixed minute duration.

    My dream for a healing boost would be adding an "echo" to heals, so that another bit of healing lands 2sec later.
  3. Brohg Augur

    Ooh, could the click be 30s/1min of Allaying Accelerando? That would be much nicer than +10k heal amt or whatever the Empyrean upgrade works out to.
  4. Gundolin Augur

    Considering I generally cast Spiritual and Graceful Remedy more than all other spells put together the first option would be the most useful for me.

    But last time I was in Droga for the Priest of Droga I was casting Syllable like crazy. (Off tank group and we were light on healers that day). We already have the Templar's Synergy Focus. Maybe something to further develop this line of quick powerful group heals. The below example was the most extreme I could find of my casting Syllable, and I cast it more than most clerics. But its an idea.

    Gundolin - 321 --- Ardent Contravention Rk. III - 3
    --- Beacon of Life X - 2
    --- Blessing of Resurrection - 4
    --- Burst of Life XXI - 3
    --- Divine Indemnification Rk. III - 2
    --- Fervid Renewal Rk. III - 6
    --- Graceful Remedy Rk. III - 70
    --- Lesser Yaulp IV - 3
    --- Mystical Intervention Rk. III - 9
    --- Quiet Miracle II - 1
    --- Spiritual Remedy Rk. III - 104
    --- Syllable of Convalescence Rk. III - 62
    --- Undying Life - 9
    --- Unity of Nonia Rk. III - 1
    --- Veturika's Perseverance - 2
    --- Virtuous Contravention Rk. II - 3
    --- Virtuous Intervention Rk. II - 1
    --- Word of Greater Reformation Rk. III - 36
  5. Tour Augur

    Keeping the Remedy line focus works best I think. They get the most use by far for the majority of the class. It's a nice balance to make up for the fact that while being the fastest line, it is also the lowest HP line. The other lines already heal plenty without the need for any foci specific bonus. Now if we had a foci that made them faster, that would be something. But I would still like the Remedy line focus.

    I like the dmg clicky too, but frankly I can't see most using it. It's a nice tool to have, but I did also find it odd that it's the only raid bp click that I'd never actually use in a raid.

    I also liked the HoT clicky. Was nice to stack with our other HoT's when you needed even more passive stability. But with the spell slot changes to celestial regen / focused celestial regen, less needed since I can stack spell and AA based HoT. Though being able to add a third, or just extending the HoT, is nice too.

    But I agree we already have lots of standard heal stuff. A ward of surety like effect, an AI type ability, a stronger alliance type buff, iunno - something that's preventative or proactive and keeps the group / raid going but isn't your garden variety heal. Or if you want to get all pipe dreamy - a purify effect bp clicky.
    Sirene_Fippy likes this.
  6. Sirene_Fippy Augur

    Throwing some more clicky ideas out there -

    1. A 2 minute buff with 5-10 charges of Healing Twincast; keep in mind:
    - CLR do not have a "Twincast" spell
    - Twincasting heals is not as powerful as twincasting DDs due to frequently hitting max HP, hopefully this doesn't seem like an OP request.
    - I would like to use Glorious more, but it can be difficult due to spell bar limits and potentially dangerous use of time casting a DD

    2. I like the SHM BP clicky! (basically another version of the cleric 2.0 clicky)

    3. I like the Allaying Accelerando idea, maybe more specific to CLR -
    - Spell haste clicky disc - maybe hasten for only 20-30s?
    - Reduce beneficial recast time by 2.2 for 60s?

    4. Some BPs have a clicky dmg absorb, what if our BP had one that was targetable? Would be great to use something like that in a near-death situation.
  7. Roxxanna Augur

    Focus: Upgrade to Wrath of Marr, 100%.
    Click: Upgrade to the hot. +10k with same duration as Celestial Regen..

    This would be a bit more fun than add a few k to our already overhealing output.
  8. kthehammy Elder

    For the clicky I would prefer an upgraded version of the VoA BP. It is like the RoF one but has a 1.5min duration instead of 25 cast counters.

    Hallowed Blessing

    1:Fc_Heal_Amt (1950)
    2:Limit: Max Level(95) (lose 10% per level over cap)
    3:Limit: Effect (Hitpoints allowed)
    4:Limit: Instant spells only
    5:Limit: Spell Type (Beneficial only)
    6:Limit: Minimum Mana Cost (10)
    7:Limit: Combat Skills Not Allowed
    8:Limit: Min Level (80)

    I would like the focus to stay on remedy.
  9. Gundolin Augur

  10. arbre Journeyman

    Remedy focus is fine. For the clicky, I'd love to see a group "ward of surety" type of spell or any proactive effect. The current clicky effect is weak and almost useless for raiders.

    Perhaps the group BP should have a different effect and/or focus? When grouping/boxing/moloing, a damage bonus would be more useful and fun.
  11. Pano New Member

    This. I would love to have an upgrade of this exact spell more than anything else mentioned.
    Brohg likes this.
  12. Roxxanna Augur

    Perhaps the group and raid level bps should have something different. I heal good enough, but dps is..........lacking.
    Gundolin likes this.
  13. Clarisa Elder

    The Remedy focus on the BP is fine and would be the most accepted of the alternatives but I would suggest that it apply to both Spiritual and Graceful Remedy (can leave the slower, older ones out since no one at max level really uses them). In spell data terms, this would mean restricting the focus to beneficial healing spells with a cast time of 0.5 sec, at least a 990 mana cost, and a maximum level of 105. I know it goes against the whole idea of limiting the BP focus to a single, current expansion spell but maximizing clerical healing involves using multiple spells from different spell lines (for most, at least) so the impact on healing will be greater if the entire usable line is covered rather than a single spell. It would definitely make it a more attractive upgrade, at least. Going forward, the developer can just limit the focus to the current Remedy and the next oldest Remedy or add a % increase if there is no increase in level cap or new Remedy spell.

    I also feel having our BP focus apply to both spells is a reasonable request considering what we got in EOK. EOK Focus AAs provided very little if any boost to single-target healing, as they only increased the value of a single spell (Spiritual Remedy) that most raiding clerics actually use. No Focus AAs were provided for the Renewal line and while all Interventions were improved through the "Improved Intervention" line, not all clerics use those or if they do, they generally don't use more than 1 (though I use 2 currently).

    As for the BP click effect, the healing-focused ones have always been pretty weak. Yes, the current HoT click effect stacks with everything but it's still only 6500 HP. That doesn't amount to much when you're faced with AOEs like this in T3 EOK:

    [47544] Everburning Breath
    Target: Caster PB
    AE Range: 400'
    Resist: Fire -900, Min Resist Chance: 10%, Max Resist Chance: 30%
    Reflectable: No
    Focusable: No
    Casting: 0s
    Duration: 60s (10 ticks), Dispelable: No
    Max Hits: 1 Matching Spells
    1: Increase Spell Damage Taken by 1% (Before Crit)
    2: Limit Spell: Fire Suppression
    3: Decrease Current HP by 139123
    4: Decrease Current HP by 159123 per tick
    5: Decrease Movement Speed by 30%
    Text: You are engulfed in a wash of sticky flames.
    Causes mana and hit point damage as well as movement slow.

    That doesn't mean the BP click effects need to be overpowered to be useful but healing amounts should be more generous considering their recast time. Consider the Small Manisi Branch we received with EOK that casts this:

    [47976] Manisi Balm
    Target: Single
    Range: 300'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: No
    Casting: 0s
    1: Increase Current HP by 40000
    Text: You are healed by Manisi Balm.
    Splash balm on another to heal them for #1 health.

    This is how you design a click effect item -- something that has a noticeable impact without being overpowered. Yes, 40,000 HP sounds like a lot to some, but even if it crits it's still only about 84k, which is just a little more than a single Remedy. It also has a recast timer of 2 min, so it's not like we're getting free heals that often. I might get to use it 7 times during a 15 minute event if I use it every time it is available and I usually don't. It's saved for when I feel an additional heal between spells is needed. That's how abilities and click effects with semi-long reuse timers (anything over a minute) are generally used. They are not spammed but saved for particular situations. Sometimes clerics are too conservative with these, waiting for the "perfect opportunity" only to go an entire raid night without using it at all. :/

    So, please be more generous with heal amounts if the HoT is going to be reused. I promise we won't trivialize raids with healing even if it's 15000 HP or something a tick. :p

    That said, I would also like something different and utility-oriented. Tour and Sirene had some pretty good ideas but again, please don't make it weak. :( I know things have to be balanced and the developers don't want to give us something as powerful as our epics, but the BP effect can be so much better than it has been without reaching that level.
    Sirene_Fippy and Gundolin like this.
  14. kthehammy Elder

    This is a good point, and I wonder if Brohg's suggestion of a clicky effect like Allaying Accelerando would satisfy both? Fast spell casts would improve healing and dps in one click!
  15. Pano New Member

    Don't forget about the cure to that dot!

    1: Decrease Hitpoints by 145123
    2: Stun (2.00 sec)

    They already introduced Alliance which is a raid spell. It trivialize a lot of events since it makes splashing quasi obsolete in a lot of situations.You can argue that it's more healing, but in reality, it's more healing to swarm pets. Unless your raid is spread out a bit, there's no real need to splash anymore if you're all piled up.

    A lot of the things mentioned are things we either already have, or other classes can give us (Imperator's Charge for example). One more click of those utilities could be helpful, but I'd rather see something else like a self only purify that works like the Paladin's one, which was mentioned in this thread. That would actually be useful. An timed synergy effect that affects all the heals you cast would also be nice, but OP. Remedies landing for 100-130k would be nice...
  16. Roxxanna Augur

    There is life outside of raiding. I know sometimes it's easy to forget this since non-raid cleric mains have gone extinct.
    Shaantara likes this.
  17. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    This statement may answer both of these points.
    As a general rule, the click effect is intended to do a certain "amount" in total.
    The current click does 65000. It's spread over 10 ticks of course. (Note, the target of the amount is very likely higher for the next iteration of these)

    this means that things like the Allaying Accelerando which are a type of spell haste, don't lend to a specific amount of effect.

    For now. for conversation lets go with the same total effect. 65000
    I am not making any commitments yet, I'm exploring ideas... but if I did something like the current click, I could do it at say 16250 per tick for 4 ticks instead of 10.
    If I did something like Hallowed Blessing... it could be 13000 per spell for 5 charges or 6500 per spell for 10 charges.
    Or it could be say a 32500 point rune that casts another 32500 rune when it drops (as a proactive)

    (these are ideas and have a chance of being vetoed or modified... so... no promises)
  18. Brohg Augur

    1 - not at all useful
    2 - not at all useful
    3 - as a far worse but in a marginally helpful way redundant version of Ward of Surety, by far the best of these options
  19. Sirene_Fippy Augur

    I like this one also!
    gnomeboss likes this.
  20. Clarisa Elder

    As far the ideas proposed go:

    1 - HoT, 16250 per tick for 4 ticks instead of 10.

    The higher heal value is better, but I think HoTs in general have fallen out of favor with clerics (in my guild, at least). I don't even include them in cast comparisons because no one casts them (except for our Celestial Regeneration HoT AA, and that isn't as cast as much as it could be). There is far too much group and AOE healing available for these to ever have a chance to land for any (much less their maximum) value.

    You could make it more useful if you added a group heal (say 30,000 hit points) that lands before the HoT does. Then it would have an immediate effect (which has a better chance of being useful) followed by the delayed effect (which has less chance of being useful but is a nice bonus).

    2 - Hallowed Blessing, 13000 per spell for 5 charges or 6500 per spell for 10 charges

    I'd prefer the higher amount because it has a greater impact but overall, I don't like this effect much. Sure, it's a nice boost and there are times I could use it, but I cast so many spells to so many different targets that powering up 5 of them doesn't really have a huge impact because I can't choose which target gets the increased healing. I could wait for a situation where I am only healing one target or casting group heals in succession to counter AOE damage (assuming that doesn't waste all 5 charges), but in both of those situations, there are likely to be more heals from outside sources that will entirely negate the added power of my heals.

    You could make it more useful if you gave it a fixed duration rather than charges, but you likely won't do that. I prefer fixed duration over hit limits and charges because it is more practical. I like knowing that a certain effect will last x amount of time rather than last so many heals or so many hits. It allows for greater flexibility because I could use it in situations where I might be healing people who don't need the increased heals along with people who do without worrying about "wasting" charges on the former.

    3 - 32500 point rune that casts another 32500 rune when it drops (as a proactive)

    This is probably the best idea of the bunch. I use Ward of Surety (which has a somewhat similar effect in that it absorbs a certain amount of melee damage per hit for 8 hits) frequently and despite it lasting a maximum of 3 seconds on a tank who is taking damage, negating damage as it lands is always useful. I don't know if other clerics use Ward like I do but I always look for opportunities to cast it on tanks who could be taking damage rather than wait for the "best time" to use it. In that sense, I don't feel that this rune would be redundant at all because Ward of Surety can only be cast so many times per event given its 2 min or so recast timer and this could be a nice backup for when it is down.
    Sirene_Fippy likes this.

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