Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Evertrek, Nov 9, 2020.
All clerics should be Gnomes !
you misspelled dwarves ~
And if not, they tank better then none raid tanks on occasion ;P
I know. I have been a Raid Cleric.
Besides, it is fun to 'perfect healing' /make tanks flop
a lot of the gameplay? because i asked about SK crowdcontrol????? seriously. funny how no one has ANSWERED that yet. This statement, the one you make right here, is the exact elitism i was referring to in the post you were responding to. 1 thing..that no one has actually clarified still (id forgotten about undead slows bc..well, its highly situational and i dont care, and i dont count procs from a belt as a class having a slow either.) is "a lot of the gameplay"?? Seriously? I can and do understand the game and its gameplay quite well thank you, regardless wehther I know wth is being referred to by SK cc, which could be some situational thing, or imaginary for all i know, because it certainly hasn't come up any other time that I've seen. Please explain oh enlightened one who knows everythign about everything and is the god of all players.
I didnt respond before because..well..they had all us underscore people locked out of forums and accoutn mgmt.
That is not true at all. A merc healer is only about 10% of a real cleric if that. As a raid warr i can tell you it dosent take many seconds to notice a diffrence.
When a real cleric is around vs a merc healer its about as equal to a skateboad vs a car. No matter how much you kick with the board to help it along it wont ever get close to the car unless the car turns off aka goes afk
If yor a cleric and your bored tell your tank/ puller to grow a pair and pull/tank like they mean it
But if they do you gotta know how to use your cooldowns properly not just spam your one botton and hope for the best. That goes for the tank and your other group members aswell ofcourse
When I was talking about PC vs Merc clerics I was talking specifically about raw healing power. The numbers a spell like Remedy lands for. That's why I said Mercs are about 90% as effective as PCs. Apples to apples, spell to spell, their raw healing power is very close to PCs. I also said Mercs are 10% as effective as players, because mercs wont use AA or mixup their spell line. They wont DI, Arb, etc. So when talking about the performance of mercs, the context is very important.
But on the topic of this thread, Cleric DPS, there is no reason that cleric can't take a vow AND continue to use divine arb, their epics, and their various other AA. Setting this up would allow Cleric mercs to handle the healing grunt work, which is where they perform well, while allowing the PC clerics to do some DPS and etc while doing the Brain work, which is where they vastly outperform mercs. A setup like that would add a lot of versatility to the class which could make group gameplay more fun.
And "pull like you mean it". This thread is not about full and well balanced groups with good DPS. This thread was about clerics trying to Molo and groups that have 2 priests or are short people. It would be great if someone like Metanis could vow and group with a raid applicant in a meaningful way. Clerics are probably the worst class in the game for having 2 in 1 group (outside of raids obviously).
I didn't read this thread, but the boost to ___ the Unnatural received should've been comparable for _____ the Undead. No reason clerics couldn't have the same boost on their destruction nuke.
People must be grouping with terrible clerics. An actual cleric is so much better than a merc. By comparison, a merc is almost unusable once you've had a main cleric or even a real cleric boxed. It's a direct power increase to your group because you are able to pull drastically more mobs.
As for the dps, theres no reason a cleric should have pretty much 0 dps options. They are already relegated to using the worst merc in terms of ai (tank). Imo, something like 50% of the dps on other priests would be totally acceptable.
I think the biggest thing is mercs can't mindlessly spam heals either. There's plenty of times where healing can just be done better than a merc by spamming heals. Though if mercs spammed heals the way some real clerics do they'd just be oom.
While I agree that at real cleric is hands down better than a merc, I disagree on the 10% effectiveness of a merc. I use a cleric merc exclusively on Phinny (I abandoned my boxed cleric after TBM). I am group geared, no raid gear. My SK dies to trash now and then because the merc couldn't keep up but it's not often. It occurs to me, though, that I have self-survival tools on the SK that a warrior doesn't have (dicho tap, regular lifetaps, etc.). So maybe the difference is more glaring with a warrior tank?
The real question is not whether or not clerics are better than mercs. We are.
The question is always whether or not mercs are good enough, and often they are.
The differences become really big when you pull groups of mobs, at that point the cleric mercs just can't put out enough healing because of the way they choose to heal. They wait for you to be hurt, and thats a big part of the problem.
As someone who has played Cleric and Shaman extensively. Cleric is super strong tank heals and even semi decent DPS, and mercs are more like 10% as effective in a really punishing fight and that's WITH all the merc AA and gear maxed. Some people don't realize all the utility buffs clerics get for keeping people alive beyond just heals. A real cleric can keep a group alive with just utility buffs, weapon procs, and recourse effects off of their nukes for 95% of content. I've done all previous group content on a cleric healing a Warrior and I end up casting maybe one or 2 actual heals during a fight.
Good point. I tend to be conservative and pretty much kill one mob at a time.
I thought the question was whether clerics could do enough DPS.
Yeah there's a lot of factors, there was one poster here who thought that GMM was pretty much untankable in group gear when it was new because well he obviously wasn't pressing any buttons. A player like that might find healer mercs 100% useless because they're not going to keep you up vs anything.
Then you have a raid geared knight pressing all the right buttons hunting with a healer merc when really they should use a dps merc on burn because well they don't even need the healer merc even when they're fighting nameds in TOV and he's only pulling singles for some reason. This person is going to find the healer merc is 100% fine.
Someone grinding exp in frontier mountains vs someone pulling 5 at a time in TOFS, add that to the skill and knoweldge gap of the person playing the tank and or healer and people are going to experience mercs differently. All of this can be compounded by good or bad dps, if you blow up say Griklor in 10-15 seconds the healer merc is going to be fine but if it takes you 8 minutes to kill Griklor then you're going to face issues.
It was, and we can't : But since other people brought it up..........
I miss when Smite the Wicked was first introduced. It, like so many other things in game, has just not kept pace with the HP of mobs. You could see a huge chunk of HP taken off with one cast, and the recast was generous, and you could easily use between heals. But it had the sensible restriction of course that could be used on undead only. On missions around that time like Tower of Rot the clr had to make tactical choices of what mob / mini etc to use it on which isn't the kind of DPS considerations we normally get to make and was fun to have that variety to the class. I didn't mind that our DPS as a whole was poor so long as I had the fun of smacking every 4th-5th or so undead mob with a Smite to the face. Combining it with TU is nice, but the dmg output just doesn't feel like it has kept pace.
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