Cleric can't DPS the sad priests

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Evertrek, Nov 9, 2020.

  1. Evertrek Augur

    most MMOs went with 3 modes. high dps priest (only self survive spells barely), DPS/Heal priest that can dish-out good heals for the group as long as they are doing damage (usually a group buff that heals for a time based on priests damage). and the heal priest (for raids and endgame dungeons).

    i love to heal and do it in all other MMOs i play. mostly the hybrid damage/heal mode. this takes skill and good gear. the last time i played my cleric was to raid heal after months of getting him geared and spells to level via guild help. i played for about a year then didn't want to go through the sameold begging for groups to get raid ready again....i like the magician and enchanter but i really want to raid heal in EQ without the drama getting to that point....

    i think devs can figure out how to rework the cleric; any half baked attempt with existing mechanics would leave us in the same boat...
  2. Tucoh Augur

    EQ would be better if they ditched the model they've had for twenty years and dramatically improved cleric DPS.

    The poster showing 50k DPS logs is about right, with the focus they're paying on DPS their DPS should be closer to 200k.
    Evertrek likes this.
  3. Evertrek Augur

    sitting on wall groups needs to be a thing of the past for any class. clerics and pullers get bored to death and burnt out with this type of leveling. I laughed (really cried) when smed introduced solo quests to EQ many years ago. they were not solo for clerics.

    there is nothing wrong with all classes being able to solo and/or group as DPS for dungeons.
    Annastasya likes this.
  4. Ecidew Journeyman

    I two Box Wiz / Chanty .. Wife plays a cleric .. When wife not playing .. I pop Tank Merc and two Cleric Mercs .. I still have to box wife’s cleric some on heals .. I can Kill current Expansion Trash but not nameds .. However with wife playing don’t need merc healers and can take on Nameds .. Basically two mercs and a poor Box does not equal a Cleric played by some one who knows how to play ..

    As for Merc Tank .. He dies a lot and my Wiz ends up tanking better than the Merc Tank .. Mercs are a stop gap that are better than nothing ..

    Equating Mercs to players that know how to play is simply insulting ..
    Qelil and Tegila like this.
  5. Iandaina New Member

    I left EQ around GoD, OoW, when the mass exodus happened to Wow, currently patching EQ to play around again, and reading this thread is like reading the forums from all those years ago, except the numbers are bigger. I personally don't foresee Cleric's getting any kind of change in gameplay, other than what we do on our own with what we have. Begging for increased DPS/ability to solo has been the cry of the Cleric for years.
    Qelil, Metanis and Evertrek like this.
  6. Tegila Augur

    if clerics are bored bc theyre raid clerics, stop grouping with raid tanks. and raid tanks shouldnt waste raid clerics' time by making them not be able to dps bc they dont have to heal so much. and/or stop slowing hte mobs, youll have to heal more often. its not rocket science. stop complaining that your healer class has to like heal and you are too elitist to group with people that make you actually PLAY the class you chose instead of begging to get other classes' things. soloing? sure, but there really arent many classes that can solo CURRENT CONTENT (which is what the complaint seems to be) so enough of this poor me crud. the more they hand out other classes' abilities to classes that shouldnt havge them, the faster the pure classes will be completely pointless and even harder to find, like warriors and clerics.

    next yo uknow sks will want slows and cc, druids will want a pet that can tank, and wizards wil lwant to wear plate.
  7. Arraden Augur

    Cleric is a very fun class to play, particularly if you're being challenged by the content you're doing - whether raid or group.

    The DPS log that was posted seems a little low for cleric output - I've just parsed some targets - TBL Raid geared cleric full AAs etc. for comparison.

    no aDPS, only using undead line and Justice line
    51k sDPS over 90s

    Same again but justice and chroma line - non-undead target
    39k sDPS over 90s

    Cleric only aDPS - vow, Div Av, frenzy, twincast, same spell bind
    171k sDPS over 90s

    Same again but justice and chroma line - non-undead target
    162k sDPS over 90s

    (No buffs outside of cleric buffs, and no TU or DoTs used)

    Granted... this is not reaching the same level as pure DPS, or the DPS that other priests can achieve.
    And, it's a focus on DPS, rather than stopping to heal. The point is, cleric functionality enables a cleric to focus less on healing unless in an intense situation. Healing procs / combat procs, AA clicks, manisi branch, HoT, nuke heals, Reverse DS AoE...

    When I was unable to get a tank for grouping, during EoK / RoS, I would tank on cleric, and pop a healer merc. Raid geared, again... so no idea what a group geared cleric would do. Of course, there is an aggro issue you have to consider, and also wasn't fast with pulls - one at a time.

    Clerics have a great number of utilities for group that are either forgotten or not experimented with that would be interesting to see them given a focus and brought back to life.

    I agree with all posts that say DPS could be modified to be higher increasing. That mixed with more utility spells would be fantastic.
    Skuz and Tegila like this.
  8. menown Augur

    SKs already have undead slows and slow proc belts. SKs also have some forms of CC, though I don't think they need slows or CC.
  9. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    Which is exactly what they should be.
  10. Tegila Augur

    ok, well i either didnt get that memo (ive been mostly afk since cotf beta) or i didnt care bc..i so rarely kill undead mobs compared to live that it seemed silly to care. no idea what cc youre referring to though, other than aehate to keep other classes from getting smacked, and the push/pull tools (thats for positioning not cc though)

    but on a side note, if your wizzy does wanna wear plate, your bst chain, your war cloth, or you just wanna wear leather on friday nights, i found a ful lset of each Ancient SSra armorornaments stashed on an alt today
  11. Chaosflux Augur

    Playing battle cleric was never a popular playstyle, but in relation to mob health, it was possible to do enough dps that it felt meaningful. That was along time ago and mob HP has skyrocketed far more then incremental ability increases have.

    I mean the best parse I saw in this thread, is the type of dps a DPS class would have done almost a decade ago.

    That's had a pretty negative impact on solo/molo potential and just personal satisfaction for clerics that enjoyed that playstyle.

    They arent even asking for anything ludicrous just a playstyle that WAS viable from a numbers standpoint, to be viable again from a numbers standpoint.

    Little love to Divine Avatar, lotta love to Vow, maybe a new proc hammer, a significant increase to the summoned hammy pet, some attention beyond incremental increase to afew nukelines.

    Hell you could just make their undead dot do 2/3 damage to living mobs and that alone would be pretty significant increase.

    None of that is going to shake the foundation of the games balance, but it might make afew players that have gravitated to other classes play their cleric again.

    Seems like a win/win situation here.
    Skuz, Evertrek and Arraden like this.
  12. kiwi New Member

    cleric could have another 15 % or 25 % upgrade to their contravention / intervention aa's
  13. Evertrek Augur

    please post your level and spell rotation if you feel that clerics can DPS and solo to endgame. but solo is only half of the concern as i have stated above, having fun contributing to the DPS in a group should be an option. more group DPS, faster kills, less heals needed...

    at low levels i used to pacify and single pull and nuke with great success. undead for example in ToFS was a productive run, i had a stack of wedding rings as i recall.

    a scaling pacify and Smite would be a good start. for groups Smite and maybe a nice aoe version would be useful. so at least if a group seems to be doing well without full heals we can still join. sadly mercs DPS better than the cleric at higher levels.

    however a new buff could be added with the smite redo that provides heals when the cleric does damage. buff the tank then nuke away. win/win for the group. when you solo buff yourself or merc and nuke away. i don't see this making cleric any better than any other class and puts the fun back into level them. i agree it's a blast to heal endgame, but competitive guilds need bis gear and full AA/spells. to get to that point should not be painful for any class.
  14. Frakius New Member

    I agree I retired my cleric years ago, raiding was fun but in the group game it's so boring and if you want to try and DPS you have to work super hard to do it and the result is pathetic. I main a Wizard now and have a box SK T2 TOV group geared tank and he tanks everything easy with a cleric merc, named included.
    My friend mains a Druid (we are both full raid geared on our mains) and he can sustain 250k dps or more over an entire xp session easily and burn 1.4 million dps no problem on named, and heal if needed, which he doesn't as the merc heals fine. Clerics are the worst class in the group game there is no doubt and I will never main one until they make them interesting and worthwhile to play in the group again, being good at raids isn't enough.
    They need a DPS increase in the group game end of story.
  15. bucktoof Journeyman

    Incorrect. An extremely well played shaman can and will do better than 95% of the clerics who still play this game. You may also be able to find a handful of druids who could pull of the same stuff but it's less likely in my opinion after playing both those classes for years at the high end level and in group content.
    Shaman is the #1 class in this game, period. Nothing compares at all.
  16. Veteran_BetaTester PIZZA!

    Picking on Clerics will result in my arrow going astray up your bunghole!

    Or maybe in your neck :D

    Edit: from a distance
    Iandaina likes this.
  17. metledmantis New Member

    The problem with clerics in eq is paladins and vice versa. Lets face it. neither of these classes have ever been that great especially pally and the reason is each other. Cleric dps sucks but can heal. Pally has less sucky dps, but has crap healing. If you raise dps on a cleric you've essentially just made a pally. It will never happen but the only way either could ever be fixed to just merge the classes into one, and let it have some sort of "Stance" that sets it to either heal or tank/light dps.
    KrakenReality and Metanis like this.
  18. Cadira Augur

    I was talking about having a shaman in a tank group on a raid. They can do some solid work but don't stand a chance against a cleric in balls to the walls situations.
    Yendar and Metanis like this.
  19. Vumad Cape Wearer

    You're being silly.

    Raid clerics group with raid tanks because they are friends. No one is being an elitist here.

    And no one is whining. Clerics wanting to be able to let a druid/SHM heal and take on a DPS/utility, especially on undead mobs, is not whining or w/e. Vow being more practical is not an unreasonable request, or even a complaint.

    It's unfortunate you have such strong opinions yet clearly don't understand a lot of the gameplay.

    I did post the limitations of my cleric. Being as my cleric does not have DPS AA and yours does the numbers are not that significantly different. About that of the AA I listed myself as missing. Your big numbers included some burns and I didn't post any burns.

    Again, I based my numbers and opinions on the concept behind increasing the penalty of vow and increasing the benefits. It wouldn't matter if clerics got closer to pallies while using vow, because pallies could still slay undead, taunt, higher mitigation, 2Her, etc. If Vow was tuned properly the cleric would be behind the pally in tanking, DPS and healing while in Vow, but way ahead in healing without vow, so it's not like battle clerics would replace pallies.

    Just my thoughts. As a cleric main you have more experience than I do.

    And again, I don't think changes should be sweeping.
    Veteran_BetaTester and Cadira like this.
  20. KrakenReality Augur

    That’s great, but people don’t want to play cleric. Less and less people want that role and the raid scene is too heavily reliant on clerics.