Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Evertrek, Nov 9, 2020.
Tank dies. Tank's fault! They should have disc'd!
OK, I have no dog in this hunt, so don't take this wrong, but.....
We have a thread full of "woe are clerics, they can't do anything well but heal", and now "they have NO CLUE what Clerics do anymore".
So, what are we missing?
Not trying to be a smart-@$$, just looking for an education.
Also, as to cleric mercs not being 80% as effective, but only 20%..... well, wouldn't that depend on what content you're doing, or how hard, seat-of-your-pants you're approaching it?
I totally agree with the sentiment that fixing a class doesn't mean nerfing other classes to attempt to make it look better by comparison. Cleric is broken- period. Every class should have some ability to solo to some degree. Not only that they actually nerfed cleric when they were already down- with that AOE nerf some time back. It's really crazy... Fix clerics, it's time. Increase DPS across the board, melee and spells and give the undead nukes a GIGANTIC buff.
You're not wrong. There are threads full of the 'woe is me'. Ever think that might be for, you know, an actual reason???
Mercs are pretty bad. But I get it. I see why people use them. I just don't understand why a group would run three healer mercs when they could just invite an Cleric then add two DPS. Kill faster. More XP. More loot. It just doesn't compute for me.
80%...20%...You don't group with Clerics much, do you? You'd understand if you had working knowledge to the actual effectiveness of Cleric vs Healer Merc.
No, I don't. That's my point. I wanted to know what they could bring, which you alluded to, without mentioning WHAT exactly they could do. I care not a bit for myself, since I play solo/molo/maybe-2-box-sometimes, and no, none of those combos involve a cleric.
That's why I was hoping more for a couple pointers for the "woe is me" crowd, who could use it, instead of the semi-smarmy, dismissive comment to me, who could care less, because I never make a cleric-or-no-cleric decision.
It would almost be worth a new thread TBH.
FWIW, I do NOT main a Cleric. I box a Cleric. So I am not getting close to maxing its effectiveness or abilities. And I immediately noticed a major difference in survivability.
Why A Cleric Is Better Than A Healer Merc
- Battle Rezzes
- Dissident Blessing
- Tank Buffs: Retort, Shining Aegis, Anticipated Intervention, Ward of Righteousness
- Group Survival without casting group heals: Alliance, Hand of Holy Wrath
- Group Survival: Epic, Divine Arbitration, Group Heals, Synergy
- Divine Intervention
- Efficiency: Direct ability to choose the best heal for the fight you're in vs. hoping Healer Merc casts the right heal
- Bestow Divine Aura
- Perfected ITU
- Aggro Management
There are many others, probably some major ones, that I am not covering. Metanis or other Cleric mains can probably chime in here.
Just responding in kind, Tatanka. You lump my comment in with the 'woe is me crowd' with no foreknowledge or exploration. Get what you give.
Learn to read. I DIDN'T lump you in with them. I specifically was asking you, since you were contradicting them, to provide examples to back up your claim. So everybody could learn something, and then maybe the woe-is-me crowd could stop complaining.
I mis-read. My apologies.
Frankly, your comments are often incendiary. I just took it as regular old Tatanka, as displayed above.
I'll be back soon enough bud, can't go too long without playing my OP shaman with super strong healing, utility, adps and dps.
Sweet! I miss your boxing thread. Any updates?
Same here, and even with the lot of tools provided by a shaman (and I'm playing a SK main), I still prefer my cleric.
Dunno why, the cleric fits better to my playstyle.
And honestly, ok, it's not a top dps in any way, but on undead stuff, it's pretty decent, more than decent actually.
If playing a cleric is boring, the rest of your group is the problem. You are not pulling/killing enough.
Clerics should have some ADPS & personal DPS bumps I think personally, some ideas & further reading on this in the topic linked below.
OP, there are lots of issues with all the classes .. just make a class you like more, its a lot easier than convincing the devs to change the entire game to fit your needs
Yep! As strong as my shaman is at healing, most of the time random passerbys stop and exclaim astonishment at whatever I'm doing it's because my cleric is there absolutely blowing up the group with healing after I've screwed up somehow and am fighting an absolute army of mobs. A cleric provides no DPS/ADPS/utility but enables a group to survive encounters they've really got no business surviving. This means a competent group of players with a solid cleric and tank can just start plowing through multiple groups of mobs. If you're bored, pull more.
It's the reason I start each expansion with my cleric in my group instead of the berserker that shares that account: I can rush into encounters without knowing the mechanics and probably survive whatever is thrown at me while I learn the mechanics.
In 2020 EQ is one of the few games with a real distribution of specialized vs generalist classes. There will always be some classes with more tools than others in any game, but EQ has absolute examples of DPS-only (berserker), heal-only (cleric) and tank-only (warrior) classes. As boring as it is to play that heal-only class in situations that aren't craaaazy enough to make use of it, that probably won't ever change. Level a warrior-alt
(Side note to p2aa, don't let anyone know that warriors can also do tremendous DPS while also being great tanks because of how strong dual wield is)
Cleric is boring. It's why a ton of raid clerics immediately bailed to other classes as soon as the cleric merc was introduced. Clerics have this weird thing, where they don't entirely enjoy their class but feel trapped.
with your is_boxer skills we can already see what is coming ,,
** COV expansion is way too easy **............. if not using that 3rd party software ( who give a GREAT advantage to any who is good at ) i don't think EQ would be that easy for them.
Cleric mercs are almost equally as effective as a PC cleric standing behind a good tank. Good clerics can't stand out unless they have a soft tank and have to start blowing through their abilities. A well played raid tank doesn't notice the difference between a merc cleric and a PC cleric on any of the group content except for the quality of the conversation.
So yeah, merc clerics are both 90% and 10% as effective as a PC cleric. 90% at 90% of the time and 10% at 10% of the time, and that 10% doesn't happen with a good puller or good CC.
Vow is the easiest solution because it is easy to tune. -% all healing and +% all damage. Simple tweaks fix it. Make Vow an AA so clerics can click off the buff for a named but they can only recast Vow every, say, 30 minutes. That makes it so that you have to commit to your role but you can go back to cleric-ing immediately, you just can't go back to DPS immediately.
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