Classic Server; Ragefire; Boon or Doom?

@ Jaxarale01 What is the research you are referring to with "fast respawn" What has been researched other than people want things faster and dont feel like waiting?

I could care less about raiding Naggy, Vox, Inny, etc. in the first month or even first year. I've done those raids many many many times from the early days to various progression guilds over the years. The end game is the last reason I'm doing this. I want the beginning and middle game!

What I'm looking forward to is actually enjoying 1-50, multiple times. Hitting places like Najena, Befallen, Runnyeye, etc. If I wanted an open game I'd go play on Trakanon. I don't. I want a busy game!

There are pages and pages of posts where people are discussing this and several other ideas that sprang from it. I believe the one thread was 30+ pages long?

They wax poetic on it and it gets into the cause and effect etc... its a good read even though I'm not for it really.

Where you say: people dont want to wait for it. You seem to be commenting in a vacuum or being a johnny come lately you may not know that many many many are advocating that for the health if the server. They do not want the pop to plummet once everyone gets to 50 and realizes they are locked out of everything and quit.

@ Jaxarale01 I am sure it is a great read- with many people explaining how they got burned by loot and spawns, others saying it would help to have faster spawns and more loot.

I have had many unfair experiences- camping a mob for 10 hours only to have a SK come over and DT it when it spawned- Never thought of asking to have the mob spawn faster though.. if I wanted an easy button I would play another game.

Im not disagreeing with you Jaxarale. But there are other people who experienced the game the same way that I did, and plan to not let it happen to them selves again.

One thing that lanys t'vyl did was create a forum called "the poop list" censorship wont let me use the real name. Outside of the top end content there was a rotation where all the guilds played nice as you describe. All of the trainers and KSers and just down right nasty guilds found them selves mentioned in a thread on the described forum and were outcast by the rest of the community.

I think a similar forum should be made for Ragefire, or atleast a sub forum on the current ragefire forum that was created. A place where all round bad apples can be reported, so the players who want to avoid them can.

Arguing is pointless... for the moment.

Ask again in 2 week or so, when every dungeon from crushbone to Lguk is overcrowded.

Hardcores arn't the only one locking down content... 6 casual people can keep CB down ( and how many players will be in CB, do you think?). BB can barely provide mobs for 12 people. Even the larger places like mistmoore won't support the 40+ people flocking to it. ( not hardcore... just your casual joe).

I hear you, I do... but I think we all want a healthy server and many are concerned that it could all come crumbling down if there is a max exodus due to nothing to do after several months.

@Bigz
Oh ya there was a poop list on many servers and those people soon were run out of town so to speak. Not sure that would work here as ksing is no long a term and people doing are obeying the rules as put forth by DB

There is still many reasons a "poop list" would benefit Ragefire. The list generally dictated rules set forth by the community not necessarily ones put by the devs. Such as guilds braking rotations skiping over n taking someones turn (when they existed), ninja looters (may not see any of those with new loot system) RMT's a lot of people generally want to avoid them. Just because DBG is going to be hands off doesn't mean the community needs to be. DBG wants to see us police our selves. A "poop list" is a good first move.

Riders of The Apocalypse, actually, but yeah, it was pretty cut-throat by my reckoning.

I agree, I would live to see something like this but... with top guilds already stating several time there will be no rotation, ksing no longer being valid, ninja looting gone with adv loot, RMT"s do not care at about a poop list as they are self sufficient and being known affects them not at all in a dps war world... what would someone have to do to get on the "poop" list?

Ninja looting could happen as not everyone will be using advloot.
I assure you, people will find ways to be d-bags. I am not nearly as clever as they are so I can't even guess at the ways that they will exceed at this behavior.
There are plenty of basic examples but it remains to be seen how the community will adapt. Training, high-levels wiping out newbie xp camps repeatedly, general a$$-hat stuff etc.

@Jaxarale01 I am still confused on these "top guilds" you are referring to who are saying there will be no guild rotation on Ragefire. The server hasn't even launched yet, so how would you assume this?

But ninjalooting is against the.... oh wait...

I couldn't agree more that six months of vanilla is insane. That will change. Or this server will die.

Again it is clear you have not been following along for the past few months, look up the posts, there are several stating that they will not honor any rotation, this is not assumption it is posted on these forums.

here is a quote or two for you.

"I want this server to be different, and I want it to be a better experience than the last 2 servers. *BUT* I am not going to be part of a rotation, and I am not going to share raid content"

here is one on trains:

"there was only 1 guild on vulak, loga was an embarrassment. hope u scrubs come back for ragefire, the trains will be more ruthless this time around."

another:

"i am looking foward to training all of you noobs who have never been to sky and don't understand how the zone works"

There are a good bit of them, this is just 3 I found in the last 4 minutes on how upper guilds will be acting... like I said look it up... its not hard.

That's what you get with six months of tedious boredom. Holding top guilds back always hurts the casuals more. Casuals NEED a one expac buffer.

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You are literally speaking a foreign language to many of us. I can't even begin to understand wtf so called elite level MMO players would even want a piece of this for other than the first couple weeks. And you are saying they are going to stay, rule the roost and have some circle-jerkoffs on every mob camp worth going for, for SIX MONTHS?

And if its true, then I guess the subs will go wayyyyy south Weebles and then DBG can hear the sound of sucking wind as the azzholes trail off not much later since there will be no market to sell to.

Yea. I AM ****HAPPY DANCING THAT WE HAVE THE POSSIBILITY OF A LONG PERIOD OF ORIGINAL EQ.*** But ya know what? I'm a big girl. And I have a belt with a reallllly big buckle. So I will just hitch up my cute lil Norrathian thong and take a few pics, send a few farewell tells and then head on out, having had FUN grouping, FUN renewing old friendships and making new ones, and FUN getting to play old haunts and going to places I may not have been hunting in before.

C'est la vie. I wish it wouldn't be ruined, but I'm sure as hell not going to 1) be scared off subbing to Ragefire, or 2) Give a curled-lip snifter of shiz about whether misfits take over. Thats for DBG to manage. Lets see.

@SCBO

From TL one of the top guilds:

"We are approaching this game and this server competitively. Our olive branch is, if you want to compete with us then play on our level. You don't watch competitive sports events, or the LCS (League of Legends), or the Magic Pro Tour, or whatever, and watch opponents "offer olive branches." You either compete, or you play casually and you don't compete.

There is nothing competitive about a rotation. If you can suggest some sort of competitive agreement, then I think you can actually get somewhere. But if you are not planning to play competitively, please don't ask us not to. We don't care whether you play competitively or not, we are not trying to change your playstyle. I don't know why you are trying to get us to change ours."

Here is a good synopsis from Mez:

"There will be no GM enforcement, initially at least. Therefore there is no way to permit or deny raid content to guilds that are prepared to sock. The hard core raiding guilds do not want anything to do with rotations or even GM enforcement, so there is no point in even discussing denying content to guilds that sock, the hard core raiding guilds will be doing whatever it takes to ensure that every other guild gets no raid targets, regardless of whether those guilds sock or not."

Another statement from another top end guild:

"Can we please stop all the raid rotation, random, blah blah stuff?
People who have the game resume to join guilds like TL or Citizen do so for a reason, we want to WIN."

LOL getting the picture yet?

=)

I don't understand why people think the hardcores are the problem. The problem is overcrowded. The server will likely have between 4-5 thousand people on it. The last survey said only 20% of those were hardcore. So strip away a thousand people and you have 3-4 thousand left. P99, with Kunark open, is pretty thoroughly camped with only 1400 logging on every night. Double that number and cram them into half the space and even if there wasn't a single hardcore on the server every single camp you could possibly get exp from, including the off the beaten path places, with have 1-2 groups sitting at them.

That is the real problem, not the end game, the middle game. There will be too many people on this server for classic. It will cause a drop in subs when frustrated people quit, and those people won't come back when the next expansion opens. I want lots of people to play, I want to have lots of people to group with in Kunark and Velious and beyond. I don't want to see a mass exodus in Classic. It worries me about the future health of the server. People who can tolerate 6 months of classic are going to be a rare breed. I hope I am wrong, but I fear I am not.

i... didn't think those quotes were that bad, really. not surprising anyway. even in crappy new MMOs, if you want the best loots you usually have to interview for a guild like its a job and go through a silly trial period and chum it up with people and be a cool and normal person, right? idk, i haven't played any in a while.

and can we please remember that classic raiding is really super boring? its not like i was getting serviced by supermodel vamp chicks up there in hate last time. if you main a bad class like me (PAL) then you end up with a full set of poorly itemized plate in the first 2 evenings. then your boxes who you're actually hitting buttons on pass to mains for a while, which is OK because they do just as much damage completely nude so they really don't need gear anyway.

then you sit around for half a year with hardly an upgrade in sight but you've still gotta drag yourself to those socks every other night and after a while it sucks.

yeah its fun to eek out a naggy kill against all odds occasionally until you loot him and he's got 2 prayers of life, 2 gold plated koshigatanananasas, a 100% wd bag and a pally book and now you wanna kill yourself because you just endured an entire day of grief for garbage.

i just think its funny to hear so many people complain about not being allowed to sit around for twelve hours and wait for a mob to spawn when it is so easy to get yourself in a position to suffer through all that if you really want to.

if you want to do it, it is pretty easy. turnover rates are high in power guilds. people burn out, and they burn out often. even the best players BRB for summer and never come back sometimes. one minute soandso is the class officer leader fuhrer grand wizard and the next they've been inactive for two weeks and won't answer their phone. it happens.

even TL is recruiting fairly openly right now. throw some coherent sentences together and fill out their app (last i checked it was a whopping six questions) and then go sit on your with them and wait for hours at a time. there is no barbed wire electric fence separating you from experiencing all the glory and boredom that is classic EQ sock raiding. go get it if you want it!!

edit: and for the record, i was pro-instancing. it didn't happen and i am still playing.