Classic Server; Ragefire; Boon or Doom?

Meh, I honestly don't plan to play and as a result voted no preference a lot (except for the server name... which my name wasn't chosen so no big deal).

I do want to say, from experience in the past on voting and re-voting that it is at times really frustrating to see an issue continually revisited over and over again after it was largely decided. I'm not saying a revote shouldn't happen in this instance due to the circumstances but when people overwhelmingly vote classic for 6 months it is sort of a big middle finger to the voters to hold revotes on that. Oh you've chosen to stay in classic for 6 months? ok we'll check back in 2 weeks to make sure you don't want to open it then. No? ok well people are still complaining so we'll check back in 2 month (or whatever).

Again, don't get me wrong, I'm not planning to play here nor am I saying QQ but I can say that holding revotes over certain things shouldn't be taken lightly. Its normally better from a PR standpoint to just lock it in and stick with the plan, since its an equally risky move to make the polls winners justify their win repeatedly or reverse a previous polls position and risk alienating those who did signup under the "Max Classic" standing. Sure some of you might not like the choice and may ultimately quit or not play on the server and who knows maybe it is a doomed plan for the new server, but I do think that the concern is extremely overplayed. Worse case scenario, population will fall off like you mention as players quit or return to normal servers then the population will bounce back in 6 months with the opening of Kunark.. Then its a simple rinse and repeat cycle with every expansion until they get to the more reasonable 3 month periods at which point the population will somewhat stabilize as the server finds its balance and spare room to spread out.

Think of it like a pendulum.

Back in Classic times competition was like:
[-----I-------------------------] on the scale (Left being pretty casual and laid back) - largely because of people being enamored in doing anything and not being particularly knowledgeable. Additionally new servers were opening constantly so a server never really got over 2k nightly population for long. [Assuming 2.0 is a solid indicator - expect it to be twice that at least for a while]

Now it's like:
[-----------------------------I-] on the scale - between the reduced support issues and the fact that player knowledge has skyrocketed and the population will be comparatively massive.

He's offering ideas that would create a pendulum swing back towards the old days - maybe a bit too far, but at least something to keep it from being ridiculously hardcore - which the old days were not.

Most rational people, including being implied in Aristo's post - are only suggesting a single revote pass or fail. (Perhaps even with a threshold in excess of 51% to be successful)

He is offering ideas assuming that there will be any sort of GM intervention. I have played classic and I have played progression. Nagafen, Vox, Phinny will be permacamped by mage bots or a select few. I highly doubt there will be 5 or 6 organized guilds that will be fighting over these targets. Increasing loot frequency or raid target spawns only puts more money in these people's hands. Yes the game has changed- the people havent.

I raided in the Top 3 guilds on probably a dozen servers - and that is a myth in my extensive experience - at least until Luclin over Emp Ssra and Cursed cycle.

You never saw people trying to kill steal someone else's raid, or train their raid, or use hacks - you either mobilized first or you sat on the sidelines while they got first chance hoping that they failed.

To claim any type of TLP "competition" is Classic is evidence that your only "Classic" experience was either Luclin+ or P99. Because real Classic wasn't that way even on non-rotation servers. (Of which nearly a quarter were!)

The game has barely changed - the people have quite a bit - knowledge is a huge deal.

I can only speak from my exp but on Karana 2000 ish there was little to no drama. Eternal Wrath was the top guild and did their stuff and did not go back and block Casus Belli nor my guild.

If they needed something they asked if they could insert a few members in our raid and traded that favor for letting our raid lead etc go with them to get strats on bleeding edge fights so when we were ready we didnt spend nigjt wiping.
The few dramas with us and CB were worked out with GMs and everyone played nice there after for years.

This will not happen on Ragequit. Several of the top guilds are on record saying this.

Again I am a instance guy so increasing spawns isnt the answer to me but I can see the point. More loot faster gets people stuff and gets them out of the way for the next group OR 1 guild wont be able to or want to lock down everything.

Not going to bother going into more detail, the ideas have been posted and explained 100 times. Do some searching to find the answers ya?

Lanys T'vyl was a server much like TLPs back when.. People poopsocked starting in kunark, Soul Assassins/Conquest locked down most content until the guild was banned for exploiting the sleeper and killing it. Most guilds raided 2-3 expansions behind while the likes of Raiders of Apocalypse locked down most content blocking progression until the server merged with seventh hammer.

The game was the way people play it on TLPs, maybe just not on your server.

Can you make a post with being condescending or nasty? lol

I am thrilled that you and others in this thread have had such a calm and rewarding experience on classic.

Again- I'm confused about your "more loot gets people out of the way faster for the next group" So since you and others are firm on this "People have changed" idea, you really think that once a person gets the loot they want they will just hand over camps to others or not attempt to lock the camp and gather loot to sell since it drops more?

My point is, modifying the game to please impatient people will not make it better

Also, did you play on the progression servers, Jaxarale01?

Fixed that for ya =)

no u didn't fix anything. the fact still remains that the game was played that way since the very early stages.

------------------
Knowledge is but one part of the hinge on that door. The apparent desire by some to put convenience above earning ones way and reputation and learning ones class, to view exploring as a waste of time, to see the lower stats and lesser increase to character skills of original EQ as just something to put up with until one can hurry up and get up higher in levels, seeing endgame as the beginning of 'real' play, and the desire to want expansions to go forward quickly so as to get to those morphed, Defiant-armor-clad-manilla-looking-little-to-no-class-delineation current live characters, plays into the expected/prognosticated wild-west stampede scenario as well, in comparison to the actual launch in 1999.

By a fraction of people - we don't let Rhode Island dictate how the laws of the US should be alone.

Sorry I was only trying to relate facts, sometimes that comes off as cold or aloof but not intended in this case... just trying to educate.

Again the fast respawn thing is not my ball of wax.. you would have to ask others who researched it. I just think anything is better than the show they are handing us.

As to modifying, thats where you are not seeing reality IMO... the game has been modified for this TLP so extensively it barely is the same. So talking about not modifying should of been sent to DB before it came up with the insane rules.

Yes I played on Combine but not Fippy/Vulac

Those are technically all symptoms of the disease that springs from knowledge if you use a wide enough lens.

If you're not familiar with the gear you're skipping towards - all the babysteps along the way make more sense. If you know a full leveling path - you're going to accelerate your efficiency in leveling with the time you do spend leveling. Etc.

Knowledge really is the core thing that would need to be dealt with - and it really can't be.

I'm not defending the tactics, just stating that they have existed for a very long time.

Nod, was just responding about why it shouldn't be shocking many find the concepts alien though -

Competition to me was always about the racing - every server (never ended up on a rotation one besides Stormhammer) was racing and bowing out when you were outmobilized.

It seems a great majority had that same experience as well (not shocking since I played on ALOT of servers - besides PVP probably half of them).

You are all naive if you think the hardcore players will burnout in 1-2 months and that end game content will be waiting for you in months 3-6.

All these posts "I'll be 50 after 4 months and then I'll get to experience endgame classic raiding."
Wrong, you will get to experience 2 months of hardcore guilds with box armies beating you to every endgame spawn worth killing and locking down every camp worth camping. Paradoxically, it is the casuals who voted for longer unlocks that will be hurt most. Previously, the hardcores would move on to Seb, ToV, Velks, etc which opens up more of the game to you once they move on to newer content, which is what you want.

Badger and Mardy have hit the nail on the head, and it will become painfully real in 3 months.

+1
Lol... Rhode Island.

@Bigz
You are trying to pass off your exp on your one server as fact for all servers and all people... simply put, your argument is invalid in that aspect.
There are many servers that did it right, not because I want it to be that way or dreamed it up but because many have posted their exp on server after server.
Do a bit of reading and you should see that your exp while valid was in the very vast minority.