Classic Server; Ragefire; Boon or Doom?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by The Badger Lord, May 6, 2015.

  1. The Badger Lord Augur

    First of all, Congratulations to those who will actually be playing on this server and wanted Max Nostalgia. This server may work out in the end, or it may not.

    However, unfortunately for me folks, I will not participating in this server. I don't care if anyone cares, and I certainly don't care if someone posts "go join project 1999, or we're better off, etc, etc". I am not here for that , but to legitimately state my concerns.

    I am simply stating I have no plans to play as currently implemented. No I am not protesting loudly and going to create an account anyhow. I simply and truthfully have no intentions to participate in 6 months of a classic only server. The only feasible option left for classic only (for an extended period) was Accelerated. I actually preferred classic with an accelerated schedule (pref 6 weeks over 2 months). However, I would have played any classic + other expansion release as well. I also would have played a locked server (prior vote), as long as it did not stay in classic for too long.

    In fact, staying in classic for an extended period was my one deal breaker.

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    As one of the original people pushing for some of these poll options, I am greatly disappointed. I had posts on classic releases and Kunark Fast-Tracks. Here was my original post.

    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...gression-server-rule-set-for-the-fans.208202/

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    The Problem with Classic for an extended period

    I am disappointed in the results. 6 months of classic is a true nightmare to behold. I honestly believe 6 months of classic alone is a server killer. 6 months of any other expansion would have its pros and cons, but would not severely and detrimentally affect the entire population on a daily basis. There were a couple of feasible options to alleviate the classic end game bottleneck such as instancing, kunark fast-track, etc. However, those options were eliminated one by one, and now the final solution: accelerated Kunark has been eliminated. Please do not quote other methods of playing everquest. Other projects such as p1999 have at least some safeguards of dealing with extended periods in one expansion such as no boxing, etc. Here is my post on the topic of why classic alone is a nightmare.

    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...erlords-rule-set-2-0-primary-concerns.219128/

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    The Flaws of the Vote

    Furthermore, I am disappointed in the poll demographics. I am disappointed in the wording and organization of the poll. It was a great idea to gather information via voting, but it was very poorly executed.

    Basing the results of an entire project on a voting mechanism with clear inherent flaws is not wise.

    Here was my post with the problems of this vote:

    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/badgerlords-voting-polls.219621/

    Essentially you gave voting power to live players who will not be playing on this server to vote. How many of the players (with no interest) did the right thing and hit "No Preference"? is a question that simply cannot be answered. I actually met players who said they will not play and did hit no preference, so they are definitely there. However I met other players who said they may play or may try it for a bit who did vote.

    You also had a vote with an entire demographic missing: players who will play on this server but do not play live. I personally know at least 3 of my family or friends are not playing EQ at all right now will play a progression server. I have asked them directly. This would be the equivalent of missing an entire demographic in a presidential election in the United States. Old people didn't have the option to vote, or a minority didn't have the option to vote. Or it would be equivalent to asking one demographic to decide the fate for everyone else. It could also be compared to asking non US citizens to for the laws US citizens will live by. Let's ask Puerto Rican citizens to decide our laws.

    There is also the point of many people voting who did not have relevant information regarding the implications of the proposal. Basically, I mean people who voted for this without ever having played on Fippy or analyzing what 6 months of Classic actually means for them and overall gameplay.

    This is an actual real problem in real life votes for laws, which has been studied. Many people do not posses relevant knowledge or information to specific votes, and do not truly understand how a law or proposal will work and impact their lives.

    If Classic Only and Max Nostalgia truly won the vote, then that's life. It happens, and I hope those who play it have fun. I still would not play, however, I would not have any questions or doubts as to the validity of the vote. As it stands, there are serious doubts about who voted, the lack of information available to the voters, and the wording of the vote.

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    Fixing the Vote

    The solution? In order of increasing accuracy

    Hold a vote on the Beta server regarding the unlock schedule.
    Hold a vote on Ragefire (in the opening weeks) open to all players
    Hold a vote on Ragefire for anyone past level 10.
    Hold a vote on Ragefire for anyone past level 10 at the start of the server, and then another vote after 2 months of classic has passed if they wish to retain the 6 month of classic alone unlock schedule.

    Hold a vote on Ragefire asking for the unlock schedule. You would still have players who might only get to level 5 voting, but it would be more accurate than a live server vote. For more accuracy, open a vote to everyone past level 10, and leave it open for the first weeks of the server asking for the vote. For even more accuracy, ask again after 2 months has passed.

    I would truly be interested to see a vote amongst strictly Ragefire players after 2 months of classic if they want Kunark to release. After 3 months of Fippy, players voted YES to unlock Kunark. Right there, that is your most accurate vote sample for a Kunark release amongst the actual progression players.

    I may consider playing if Daybreak guarantees a vote after 2 months to continue with the originally played max nostaligia schedule or to convert to Kunark Fast-Track (just for kunark or overall). I will not go into the server with an "If it turns out that the majority of players on the server decide they want a change before that, we can investigate lowering those minimum times."

    That is not a guarantee or fundamental principle of the server, but a company's promise in a game, which usually amounts to absolutely nothing. For example, It took years to get another progression going, which was the will of basically everybody who will be playing on this long before it happened.

    What harm could there be in guaranteeing such a vote after 2 months? If max nostalgia is truly the people's will, then nothing changes. Why wouldn't you do this? There is no reason NOT to do this. Think about it!

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    In the end, it may all work out, and all of my concerns may not matter. Anything is possible. However, after seeing Fippy, and analyzing the effects of 6 months of classic, I honestly believe there will be enormous problems and Ragefire will start to fail after only a few months of classic.

    In the words of Gandalf "Here Lies Balin, son of Hoondin, Lord of Moiria".

    Here is my derivative: "Here Lies Ragefire, Son of Fippy, Lord of the Progression."

    I still hope it does work out for all those who will be playing. I really do.

    In conclusion, there are simply too many flaws in the vote, and more importantly simply too many problems with 6 months of classic.


    To everyone who voted for Max Nostalgia and will play, congratulations. I hope everyone who plays (regardless of their vote) has fun and wish you all the best!


    Sincerely,

    Badger Lord
    Indrigoth, Jet-Li and Hateseeker like this.
  2. MBear Augur

    Badger, you have many words today.
  3. Flandersian Augur

    "After 3 months of Fippy, players voted YES to unlock Kunark. Right there, that is your most accurate vote sample for a Kunark release amongst the actual progression players."

    Not just a YES vote, but a resounding YES!!!!! People were asking by the second month for a Kunark vote or for them to open the Hole, or just anything to alleviate the unplayable conditions of any higher level content.
  4. Mourne Journeyman

    Looks like we're going to have the Hole 1.0 at launch this time at least, that'll help a tiny bit.
    jagarr likes this.
  5. PeppeLePeu Elder

    Among the actual progression players at that time you are correct. That does not mean that it is the same vote that the current progression players are wanting.

    That said I am not opposed to a vote at minimum of three months in (half way) for the player base to determine if they want to stay or move on. It would need to be polled though over at least a two week period so even the absolute most casual of progression players gets a say as even their vote matters but I am for a vote at three months.

    Also to note - I am only for the vote to progress past classic to speed up the server. Even I remember that outside of the utter slow leveling there was not a plethora of things to do at cap in classic. Kunark and beyond are a totally different story though.
  6. The Badger Lord Augur

    Guys, I forgot to add this.

    It did not deviate my vote for an Accelerated Kunark, however, many people did not vote Accelerated Kunark for the 3 months of Planes of Power.

    If POP had 6 months listed under the Accelerated Kunark, I wonder if that changes things. There were quite a few posts and many replies on this topic.

    Again, just goes to show how complex all of these unlocks were, and how poorly worded and executed the vote was.
  7. Darth Augur

    I agree 100% BL. I myself was fighting the good fight. 6 months of classic is a server killer. The top guild will have a blast collecting tons of loot. The casuals, true casuals, might even make level 50 in banded and bronze or Sol Ro armor. But the middle gamer? The casual who wants to advance, or the hardcore player that refuses to join the top guild, they'll quit. And, that group is the biggest group.
    Indrigoth likes this.
  8. taliefer Augur

  9. Doranur_Aleguzzler Augur

    It's Balin, son of Fundin, Lord of Moria.
    Fallfyres likes this.
  10. Mardy Augur

    I 100% support having a vote at 2 months mark to see if people want to open Kunark. This is all based on my experience from Fippy/Vulak. I was there and saw how bad it was even just 2 months in. By 3rd month people couldn't vote "Yes" fast enough. By then the server had lost a lot of players. Let's be honest, most of you that were there saw what happened during classic. This is what happens when you cram casual and hardcore players into the same tiny classic for that long period of time.

    Expansions such as Kunark would open things up and allow casuals & hardcore players to compete for different content and zones. But classic, you're simply asking for trouble stuffing everybody into the very limited amount of raids and zones.
    Indrigoth likes this.
  11. MBear Augur

    They should have just had a poll item for each expansion of -faster/3/6/slower- and they would have pinned it down better.
    Irbax_Smoo likes this.
  12. Tharrg Augur

    They only voted because the Mage bot armies had locked down so many camps and spawns that the players needed a few more places to be able to play. Unless they find a way to combat the mage bot armies it will be a disaster just like Fippy. Spawn times have got to be shortened on all the rare and boss mobs... a max of 6 hours for a spawn would create a balance to the bot armies and would be better for everyone..
  13. liveitup1216 Augur

    I voted for classic only start, max nostalgia. I don't understand where this notion that Live players tried to sabotage the server by voting for 6mos of classic. It's quite the opposite of a server killer? I played Fippy too and voted 'No' for every unlock though.
    Fallfyres likes this.
  14. MBear Augur

    I'll vote yes until PoP, then no after that.
    Circadian72 likes this.
  15. Oberon Augur

    maximum nostalgia could not lose!
  16. Tachyon Augur

    Same here. I honestly don't understand what all the fuss is about. A long term Classic/Kunark server is something we have never had before. Sure, it's not going to please everyone, but it will please the relaxed crowd who have never had this option before.

    If those who hate it want to be productive, ask for another server along your lines. Daybreak has already said they are open to more options. Work for something positive and I think you will find them receptive.
    Fallfyres likes this.
  17. Brunlin Augur

    I'm fine with the turn out...They did say if the masses change their minds before the 6 months is up...than they will revisit the 6 months of classic and bring it to a re-vote. So, I am not understanding how this is bad. We can change our minds halfway and if the votes are padded as many people seem to think than that will probably happen since the people on the server is who they will be listening to.So it is not set in stone...unless the votes are true and the masses don't change their mind. Either way its a win win for the true majority.
    Klaria, Fallfyres and Barton like this.
  18. vardune Augur

    I do hope they do a vote to unlock kunark early, 7 months of classic will be hell on norrath. Three months max.
    gander likes this.
  19. PeppeLePeu Elder


    I truly disagree and am looking forward to decent 6 months in each expansion to explore and have fun. Totally viewing classic as a chance to get reacquainted with everything and from then on the truly dig deep. It'll be great in that it'll give plenty of time for all the nostalgia and back in the day vibes while still giving time to explore whenever we get to the content I left at.

    That said I am fairly certain that either they will give us a vote and we'll move on faster then I would like or they'll open up a faster paced server for those obsessed with just moving down the road. I don't get the rush but I don't fault you for having it either.
    Klaria, MBear and Fallfyres like this.
  20. Behee Augur

    The problem with classic EQ is that it had a level 50 cap, and no AA's. My wife and I voted to open up to Velious, since that gives a ton of room if the population is high plus there is plenty to do to get to level 60, AA'ed, gear, spells, and so on. But even most casually, I can't see playing 6 months (plus vote activation and the voting period itself) in classic EQ.

    I will probably binge for 1 month with subs (I doubt it will take more than 2 weeks to hit 50), then go back to the other servers FTP until Kunark opens.
    Indrigoth likes this.

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