Classic Rogue BUFF idea

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Goodkitty, Mar 30, 2018.

  1. Goodkitty Augur

    I was thinking since rogues are in classic it would be cool if they had a scale-able innate haste to help push them thru levels.

    Every 10 levels the rogue unlocks an innate 4-5% (Worn haste) up to 20-25% at level 50.

    I think this would help the gear curve while leveling up and make the rogue more appealing as dps in a group pre kunark/epic/raid loot.

    I know this won't help much late game when we get bigger haste items and I wouldn't expect this innate trait to scale past 50 because it wouldn't matter and it shouldn't, but it could help rogues who just stick to group loot and puts them slightly ahead of your common fbss user.
  2. ShivanAngel Augur

    please no more dps buffs, mobs already evaporate as it is... Rogues arent in THAT bad of a place, if anything some classes should have their dps toned down.
  3. Goodkitty Augur

    1 small buff is way easier than a nerf across many classes.
  4. HoodenShuklak Augur

    If the intention is to help rogues solo, then we can expect nothing to happen short of a lifetap poison.

    As far as getting groups in classic, rogues will always have a hard time relatively unless something absolutely game-changing happens. This would probably be along the lines of further pet nerfs (outcry) or substantial monk dps nerf. Simply put, rogues bring nothing to the table other than DPS. And in early expansions they really aren't that much better or even as good as some classes. But just about every class brings some serious utility to the table such as taunt, tanking, buffs, utility (coth, rez, etc), pulling and on and on. (The pick lock and disarming of traps are definitely good, but bards can do that too. Pick lock is seldom used anyways.)

    I've mentioned before that I feel like rogues should be the best melee DPS because they really do nothing else. In Velious I saw monks outparse rogues all day long... plus the monks pulled like champs. The one thing rogues could specialize in way back when was corpse runs. You really wanted a rogue for that. Not anymore. In fact, nobody wanted rogues on a raid in particular. Any melee DPS would suffice, and chances are the random monk would DPS better regardless.

    The easiest fix? Give rogues some chance to roleplay! Make them the kings of situational poisons such as a small variety of disease, poison, and magic poisons that are worthwhile and craftable starting in classic. Adding in a handful of poisons really should be a trivial matter, but if they got something really cost effective (think fire, magic, cold awareness III potions that last 3 hours) and powerful then they would be more in-line and less of a red-headed stepchild (at least up to Luclin which is where I've seen so far).
    A_New_Cleric and Niskin like this.
  5. NitroNic New Member

    I started as a rogue on this TLP and opening weekend I found groups and level'd well. Second weekend I ended up in a group with another rogue and a wizard. We were awfully slow at killing and I realized I was contributing to the problem.

    Rogues are no problem if they're being carried by some of the buffed dps, but when exposed you realize they just do not get the job done. I am sure they are still way better than in 1999, but you spend 50 levels watching a mage pet out damage you.

    TL;DR as a rogue I hated grouping with rogues (myself)
    A_New_Cleric and HoodenShuklak like this.
  6. ShivanAngel Augur

    Power creep in general is bad, people hate nerfs but when you buff all the classes to be the same as the best class you have an unhealthy game.

    Also a little bit of haste wont come close to fixing the problem and here is why.
    1) rogue damage is a product of their mainhand piercer, this automatically puts them behind casters and monks who are 100% optimal out the gate.
    2) monks are busted right now, they are essentially dual wielding two handers.
    3) charm is busted right now

    The problem is not that rogues are bad dps, its that monks and chanters are so over the top EVERY other dps is crap. Also i played a rogue on fippy and phini and not once did mage pets outdamage me once i got an even remotely ok weapon.

    The only true fix i see working is maybe a waning backstab damage mod. That eseentially adds like 3 damage to your weapon when backstabbing at like 30, then 2 at 40, 1 at 50 and zero at 60.
    A_New_Cleric likes this.
  7. Sumonerr_Tunare Augur

    Rogues are definitely in a bad spot but I think it's just how overpowered monks are that shows it.
  8. Critt Augur

    The easiest way to buff Rogues would be to give them a disc tome of summoned poison..that is worth using.
    A_New_Cleric likes this.
  9. HoodenShuklak Augur

    I agree that monks could actually use a nerf pre luclin. But even if you did that rogues gain no ground. The utility a monk brings will even trump a slight dps shift.

    Not to mention every other dps class still wrecking a rogue.

    The easiest solution i see is to simply give rogues the boost. Thats easier than figuring out some far reaching class nerfs.
  10. Goodkitty Augur

    You guys ask for complicated solutions. My idea is simple for a boost >:3
  11. ShivanAngel Augur

    Then your rogue gets fbss or even cof and is still miles behind a monk or charmed pet with the same item and you are back to square 1.
    HoodenShuklak likes this.
  12. Chuuk Augur

    I would be on board with giving rogues some worthwhile poisons. The possibilities are endless for how cool they could make rogues if they revamped poison making.

    But they w/e. An innate haste buff, to me, feels like it takes away from the lore.
    jiri_ likes this.
  13. snailish Augur

    I played a rogue to 60 on Phinny into Luclin.

    I probably wouldn't start a new rogue on a progression server until TSS era if I was to do it again.

    Problem solved (don't play a rogue).

    Not the way some want it solved, but even if no one --and I mean no one, plays rogues on early progression I don't know there is $ in it for Daybreak to address it vs. everything else they have on their plate to keep the $ rolling. Rogues are good on live servers, and become good/great at a certain point in progression when the vision/tuning does place them as a top DPS class in most situations. Something they weren't originally in the early eras.

    Access to a couple of better ratio rogue-only weapons in classic would probably help. Especially if you got said weapon nice and early vs. other classes.
    Critt likes this.
  14. ShivanAngel Augur

    Rogues do fine in kunark especially once they get their epic. A 15 damage piercer and double backstab is huge. Will you outparse a monk or chanter charming? Probably not. But I wouldnt pass up an epicd rogue personally.
  15. RandomStrategy Augur

    I like having a rogue in group, cause how the hell else am I gonna open those rogue locked doors?

    In the entirety of Agnarr, I've been in Seb crypt once.

    Rogues, I do love you and will give you a spot in group any day.
  16. Niskin Clockwork Arguer

    I still miss the utility of things like dragging corpses. I don't want to go back to leaving gear on corpses when you die, but that change was really what broke the usefulness of dragging corpses. Now you can re-break the room and res afterwards. But maybe there are some things they could do to give Rogue's a little utility back.

    My first thought was an AE /corpse ability that could drag every corpse they have permission to at the same time. That would be handy, but it doesn't solve the issue of having a reason to drag the corpses. So how about if the Rogue had some way to mitigate resurrection effects? Either the effects or the duration or some combination of the two? It could be active or passive or even tied to any corpse they had dragged.

    Another possibility would be something that would be useful against sub-optimal mobs. People talk about how nobody wants to group where the mobs run or heal. Rogues get an ability later on that reduces healing amounts on a mob. Maybe they could get some kind of healing specific silence ability, either as a proc or activated ability. It's hard to give them something to help with runners without it just being "Rogues get snare now" but maybe a short duration root that puts the Rogue at the top of the hate list while it's active.

    Rogues will have a rough time getting groups unless the people in those groups see a reason why they should have a Rogue. There has to be something that can be done to make them more appealing to groups.
    A_New_Cleric likes this.
  17. jiri_ Augur

    What about a short duration, short reuse disc that adds a 0s duration stun to every backstab? That would let Rogues hold backstabs to interrupt heals, roots or other spellcasts, and could be really helpful later when Gating mobs become more common.
  18. Dailor Augur

    If every class you play needs buffed/fixed, maybe the class isn't the issue.
  19. jiri_ Augur

    I don't think any class needs to be buffed or fixed, except rogues in classic.
  20. Carlos Journeyman

    A part of the solution to fix rogue dps during classic is simple and it's by weapons power upgrade.

    A weapon like the burning rapier : 20 Delay 7 DMG can simply get a boost to something like 19 Delay 8 DMG and that would help alot. It won't make the rogue dps as a monk but it would help by giving a little edge to the class. A mod like that can be made to 2 or 3 daggers not just the burning rapier.

    The idea of an innate haste is not bad or give access to like 3 or 4 new poisons recipes (stackable and with charge) but it's more hard work for the devs and some players would say that's it's classic breaking etc.

    Devs just have to play with the number on a given item, not create a new one or put new game mechanic in place.
    It's fast to do and not game breaking.
    A_New_Cleric likes this.

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