Classes locked to expansions is bad for TLP players

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Skuz, May 8, 2022.

  1. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    But I am a realist.

    I have advocated for change.

    Change I have seen take place.

    I did not do that alone.

    I am not doing this alone.

    You are doing what you are doing alone.

    Want a list of things I have asked for, alongside other forum users, and actually received?

    GoD not being released with OoW.
    Raid "Key" drops increasing, VoA onwards.
    Raid Currency Multipliers.
    Loot multipliers.
    AoC for Live Servers.
    Truebox being switched off after DoDH - Relaxed Truebox in Omens of War, Truebox off in TBS is close enough.
    A GoD Start TLP

    Pretty good so far.
  2. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Goodbye, have a nice day.
  3. Manafasto Augur

    Can you please provide a link where it states they needed free trade to perform the random loot? I am still attempting to find a response about these two classes had to be locked to expansions. Both of these subjects have been brought up for years, meaning free trade and BST/BSK. One of these subjects have been launched. Itemization for BSK and BST has been in all era's for years.
    Skuz likes this.
  4. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    But it does illustrate the strength of feeling & the level of support it has.
  5. Aenoan Augur

    Kind of would like to be able to roll a BST or even a zerker early for once. Just so the mithril 2hander isn't just vendor fodder.
    Skuz likes this.
  6. Midnitewolf Augur

    Yeah I kind of feel like it BST was available on day one, that would probably be my first choice of classes. Generally speaking by the time they become available, I feel I am too far behind the leveling curve to play catch up.
    Skuz likes this.
  7. Aenoan Augur


    Yeah, I tried on Phinigel and it ended in disaster. I was too burnt out. I tried a Ranger then rerolled to BST. I wasn't feeling either class but I realized later that I was just burnt out on the game as well. The leveling grind is part of it too.
    Skuz likes this.
  8. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Levelling on Live in 2004 was not too bad, just a bit laborious to do it with just one other player helping (cheers Xenongril).
    The worst part was initially grinding out a couple thousand AA before I would be considered for recruitment by any raid guild, practically lived in MPG for a couple months.

    Levelling on Phinigel was worse, I two-boxed 99% of the way and had a couple of days of help from a high level Cleric (cheers Kurway), I was already in a raid guild as it was with friends from live but they were all raid-logging mostly.
    The initial AA grind to catch up was actually less painful here due to some fortunate circumstances.
    1. I was fairly well-known by this point so I could recruit for groups much more easily.
    2. A double experience weekend that I took full advantage of which just so happened to be available when I hit level 70.
    3. I was three boxing by this point (BER/SHM/BRD) so I was largely self-sufficient but rotating players in to the group over the 2.5 days of double XP I went from 200ish AA to max AA at 70, dropping my shm & brd if there were enough real players to fill it, I actually had people queuing to get into the group at serveral points.

    That catch up can leave you feeling pretty burnt out, on Live you had 12 months to go from 0-65 & a couple thousand AA, on TLP you get 1 month to do it if you hope to get anything meaningful from GoD, many Berserkers will not get to raid as one until OoW unless they had a lot of help / paid for a powerlevel. Without that good fortune of a double xp weekend happening right as I needed one I wouldn't have either, and I pretty much burned myself at both ends that weekend to catch up.

    I'm getting too old for that sh**. (sleeping 4 hrs a day & grinding the rest).

    But this catch up handicap is not the only thing that hurts for Beastlord & Berserker players, its also the fact you aren't able to start with mates when the server opens, and your character is behind on everything, things like prior raid zone keys & flags which might still be handy later on, you miss out on the classic to PoP raiding unless you play an entirely different class. That's like just under 25% of the entire game you are shut out from ever completing in era on a Berserker, and Beastlord miss out on most of the trilogy stuff.
    Aenoan, Bobbybick and Stymie like this.
  9. Aenoan Augur

    BST is easy like half their spells are shaman based anyway and they can use almost everything a monk can but the posky items. Zerker is a bit easier as most two handers in the game already have them tagged as zerk useable.
    Gear wise there is plenty of ALL/ALL to use but generally everything already already has the appropriate class tags already.

    All it would take is basically adding back in Anthemion to planes. Sadly I don't think zerkers get planar 1.0 armor?
  10. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    It exists for PoFear at least, the devs went back & retroactively tied the gear to the class-expansions as well.

    PoSky has no BST or BER quests and I am not sure about PoHate if that has BST/BER gear.

    Still, it would be nice if they did allow these classes in classic to add something for them in those earlier eras in line with what other classes get, but if not C'est La Vie, I could live without it for sure.

    But if they did then I'd buy the whole team a beer/coffee/beverage
  11. Aenoan Augur

    I wasn't entirely sure what gear is available. I do most group camp is definitely there and raid drops in Kunark too.

    I see no downside except that Akela and I be rollin up in da hood.
  12. coltongrundy Augur

    They can't figure out how to make beastlords and berserkers not tied to expansions.

    That's why Vaniki launches with Gates of Discord even though it has level 40 cap.

    There's no point in asking them to change something that they don't know how to do. It's not going to happen.

    What would beastlords even do in classic, kunark, and velious? They wouldn't have any of their real utility stuff yet and they're not a DPS class. The only thing they could do in classic would be an extra 3 hp/mana regen buff. At level 59 they could increase that to 7 per tick. And that's it. That 1 single spell is the the entirety of the beastlord kit pre-AA and luclin spell drops.
  13. Aenoan Augur

    They are good dps not great and have utility, they are a good middle of the pack. No ones aiming to be top dps or every player would just roll shamans and monk and necro and sks.
    Even still there is more to life than just kitty crack.
    The amount of code twisting they did to make some of these servers work, once upon a time TLPs couldn't work either. Once upon a time server transfers couldn't work on TLPs. There is a laundry list of things they were thought to be impossible but end up getting done. A good example might be actually getting a new client.
    They already exist they are just locked. Kinda like how everything is locked behind "All Access" pass.
    But they claim it's free to play Kappa.
  14. Schwifty Journeyman

    Bill Frost, a developer that came on during Kunark, tells a story of how he got the company to fix the mechanic that no mobs could have over 32,000 HP. Everyone told him it couldn't be done, but he knew it was going to be a major issue for the games development going forward. He walked into Brad McQuaid's office and explained to him the problem and how to fix it. Brad tells the team to fix it and after about 10 days of work, what was supposedly impossible to change was done and fixed.

    It would probably be worth the time and effort to add all the classes to classic for TLPs.
    Skuz, Manafasto and Aenoan like this.
  15. Sealion New Member

    Just chiming in to +1 this, one of the worst feelings of TLPs is thinking how much I'd like to try a new class, or an Iksar monk instead of being locked to human... and realizing I cannot unless I want to wait months, by which time the fresh experience is long gone. Really lowers the appeal for people who have exhausted fresh runs of existing choices.
  16. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Rubbish.

    I posted a concept for a GoD-Start TLP with a level-locked start a couple years ago.
    LLP was an idea that existed for several years prior to my TLP idea I borrowed it & fleshed it out some then incorporated it into the beginning of my TLP idea as a way to help counter the launch weeks problems TLP often have & the associated complaints.
    Vaniki takes a lot from my GoD-Start TLP server idea, it doesn't have to be related to the devs having no way to un-tie them from their expansions at all, though part of the motivation in my creating that TLP concept was for a TLP that enabled all classes from its launch.

    The devs can change the order of expansion unlocks independently of one another if they wish.
    The devs can have individual NPC's appear in the world or not based on expansions or coincide them with expansion unlocks as they want.
    The devs can have classes, races & combinations of these available or not available in any expansion that they want.

    Not really, but in this case they do know.

    Same thing every other class does, play to their best while not having much class-development by that stage.

    Not really a reason to exclude them when many classes do not get class-defining spells until Luclin either.
    Rogues are weak in Classic but nobody is advocating for them to be removed from classic.
    Manafasto and Aenoan like this.
  17. Manafasto Augur

    Kitten Crack is pretty good to have in classic. It is not game breaking but it will be noticed.
    Skuz likes this.
  18. coltongrundy Augur

    I'll take your lack of an argument as agreement.

    You want a cookie? You had a bad idea years ago and that somehow proves that gates of discord level locked to 40 wasn't done to make berserkers available? I don't know how you got to that conclusion. Quite a leap.
  19. Aenoan Augur

    Probably should read the rest of the posts he's made. A valid argumenthas already been made and it has been echoed.

    This is beyond just simple "MAH NOSTALGIAS".
    Which has long been tainted.
    Manafasto likes this.
  20. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Ragefire started with Gnome Knights & Halfling Rangers, they then re-tied them to Luclin mid-way through Kunark.
    VoA was going to be the unlock for Froglok Monks & Wood-Elf Beastlords until it was pointed out the vote for those wasn't finished until mid RoF, so now they are CoTF.

    If they can revert those changes they can undo them & any other expansion ties.
    I can't find the post but I do recall Prathun saying that they could have all classes in from classic if they wanted.

    No it doesn't prove it, but it shows that a completely different version of events to the one you proposed could have happened & for different reasons.
    Manafasto likes this.