Class balance through the eras

Slow mitigation is what they are talking about. Slow became less useful over time.

It's going to still change based on balance and trickle down from more recent changes though, so you still won't get a really accurate comparison. For example, rangers are going to be EXTREMELY overpowered early in PoP due to changes made to headshot that have been made since the last set of progression servers that let them instagib level -1 mobs.

A note though, shadowknights in particular have fallen significantly behind paladins and warriors in all aspects of tanking over the last few current level expansions.

Don't worry sk's, even on a 3 month server it will be many years before it gets to that point.

It might just be lack of paladins, but sks were so amazing during GoD raiding.

Holding doors open is amazing?

Keep in mind that due to changes to core mechanics over the years, class balance at various stages of progression today may be drastically different than what it was like at various stages of progression originally. A write up from 5+ years ago will probably be useless. Mage pets in classic is a great example.

Your best bet is to talk to someone knowledgeable who played all the way through the most recent progression servers (or at least the eras you would be interested in knowing about.)

Also keep in mind that with the slow pace of these progression servers, a class that may have been very powerful in say, DoDH on Fippy/Vulak, may not still be as powerful in DoDH this time around. Who knows what the devs will change between now and the servers reaching that point, but it is almost certain that something significant will change class balance wise. To some extent therefore it's a crap shoot.

Does anybody remember the great warrior sit-in? The Monk rebellion?

There were class balancing things done that had huge impact on the gameplay of those players. Those two were HUGE. In the big picture, it may have made the game more balanced but, to those players, they were devastating.

Look, I played a druid main for 2 years, then a chanter main for 3 years (two boxing) then a mage main for the next 10 years (with breaks). My last main was a long-time mage main.

I get it. I do. I love my mage. I could do anything. I could backup pet tank in a raid tank rotation. I could solo all normal content. I three boxed (with mercs) the top boss in HoT. I was unstoppable.

I was also overpowered.

I love mages, but the imbalance in TLP is a chasm of disparity.

Those were also in response to current content across all, not a prolonged whine from a group of players demanding changes that would benefit non-mage players on a single server.

The real issue with responding to something like this is it is almost completely anecdotal. There are so many variables that go into a characters performance from group makeup, personal skill, raid responsibilities, gear etc.

Perfect example. I raided in 3 of the top guilds in EQ for a number of years. Township Rebellion/Raging Fury/Triality. Now forever I just had this impression that rangers were terrible dps because I had never seen one put up a competitive parse. When I joined Triality there was a Ranger named Oblivion who would put up competitive parses with every class in the game if he was given the right group setup. Prior to this I would have said that rangers were poor dps but they were not at all I had just never seen one as skilled in a situation where they had all of the requisite attributable dps.

You could have discussions forever about class balance and class strength and progression but I can most likely sum it up for you pretty completely with this statement.

Just about every dps class if played to its maximum potential in a group with the proper attributable dps classes can do competitive dps. By competitive I do not mean top dps obviously.

If you really want to play a character who's power increases constantly to the point that they are so vastly overpowered it is almost illogical just play a bard. While they are relegated to resist and regen bots currently they quickly become by a huge margin the most powerful class in the game. The only tradeoff here is you will never see yourself on a parse however if you just look at the damage you add to a group its almost sickening.

Current Aira song adds 45% spell damage plus overhaste triple attack modifier and flurry modifier. If you were just to put yourself in a group of Wiz/Wiz/Nec/Druid/Ench and if you said that you were adding 45% spell damage with just that 1 song to the whole group im sure you can extrapolate the power of a bard when you consider that just standing there singing that 1 song accomplishes that much attributable dps. Then you can add in your personal dps and extra damage for spell songs ect.

If you can handle the knowledge that you are the best class in the raid without ever really getting the recognition of it as Wizards/Necros etc talk about parses then you will never search for a guild because any reasonably skilled or organized guild knows that even in a 54 man raid you want 9 bards on the raid team for every pull.

I admire your appreciation for the bard class, and they are my favorite class, but I have to respectfully disagree with some of this.

Aria doesn't add 45% spell damage to wizards, because they have this -

Kerafyrm's Prismatic Familiar

Classes: WIZ/254

1: Increase Spell Damage by 40% to 60%

Necros have these -

Chaotic Power (Impel for Blood proc)
Duration: 60s (10 ticks), Extendable: Yes, Dispelable: Yes
Max Hits: 25 Matching Spells
1: Increase Spell Damage by 25% to 150%

Death's Grip (Hand of Death proc)

Classes: NEC/254

Duration: 60s (10 ticks), Extendable: Yes, Dispelable: Yes

1: Increase Spell Damage by 30% to 120%

Inner Fire (Funeral Pyre AA, increases mana cost and decreases DoT duration)
Classes: NEC/254
Skill: Alteration
Restriction: Cannot Remove
Target: Self
Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: No
Casting: 0s, Recast: 1.5s, Rest: 1.5s
Duration: 2m (20 ticks), Extendable: No, Dispelable: No
1: Increase Spell Damage by 40%

Mages have this disc -

Fire Core

Classes: MAG/254

Duration: 2m (20 ticks), Extendable: Yes, Dispelable: Yes

1: Increase Spell Damage by 80% to 130%

Aria doesn't work at all on rains, which is a large portion of mage DPS. During a burn, bards add little to casters (22% crit chance, 10% crit dmg mod). In a long fight, bards add the most to NEC, some to MAG, and very little to WIZ.

Our ADPS to melee has fewer stacking issues - Aria adds about 33% extra rounds to melee, so in a group of 4 melee + SHM + BRD you will see a 33% extra melee toon as a bonus. Our contributions to a raid are even less when facing current anti-melee content (frequent AE slow/snare, range fights), and considering the lack of survivability for many melee DPS. Over time, bards have been losing ground when it comes to ADPS.

To the OP, bards have a unique amount of utility in classic, #1 being their runspeed. Personally, I do not enjoy old-EQ bards - playing a bard on TLPs is completely different from live servers. They are decent pullers (monks are the best for a very long time), have good resist buffs, decent mana regen, and mild haste. Bards up to Velious are really a utility class, not so much an ADPS class. In Luclin, they get overhaste, and PoP they get their first spell damage % song.

Bard pulling is limited to pacify until PoP, when they are able to fade ~ 5 times with raid gear (this severely limits what you can do, especially if you die). The good news is that every expansion adds mana regen, and as their total mana pool increases, Fade becomes more viable.

Each expansion, bards usually get some kind of token ability that has lasted through the years (OoW = Epic 2.0 / Dance of Blades, DoN = group proc song, DoDH = Thousand Blades, TSS = Funeral Dirge, SoF = Fierce Eye / Quick Time, UF = AE mez, VoA = Sonic Displacement).

Bards get a huge power jump in TSS with out of combat regen, and were their most powerful (that I've played) in UF, when the Flurry mod on Aria was modded and all melee had 100% flurry. At the time, we also had no recast timer on our nukes, and could make the top 10 DPS on a burn. Unfortunately both of these were nerfed so that you will not see that kind of power again in UF, although the content is difficult enough that having a bard for pulling alone is a big deal. Bards do not get ADPS improvements beyond SoF, and with each expansion other classes gain abilities that negate some of our benefit. In this way, bard contribution has decreased over time, yet they maintain a reputation of being overpowered and too heavily relied upon by other (mainly DPS) classes.

In general, most classes are balance and bring a unique powerful feel once Luclin/PoP is current. PoP seems like the "Hayday" of EQ. All classes are fun to play, all bring something cool to parties and raids.

I will say right now back when the game came out this was always an issue .. SKs were behind the other 2 though back then warriors were the main tanks EVERYTIME .. paladins had issue holding threat as did SKs

I am seeing rogues and rangers tanking and I have to look at that and say ./.. HUUMM?? .. THIS never happened after about 15th level as they were way to squishy ..

caster wise nothing has changed .. mages due to their powerful pets were the best soloists with necros often a close 2nd .. wizards were the bazooka and in high desire for groups at higher end as were the group back up known as the enchanter to keep control.

with expansions this may have changed a bit BUT up to vellious it was like this

Rangers were tanking to 50, same caps as warriors in era with far better aggro generation. It was Kunark where they took the defensive hit.

really ??

don't know for sure .. i had a friend back at the beginning that played a ranger BUT had NOTHING but issues with the class and made me happy i was a druid (not the druids don't have issues)

I keep thinking of pushing the create button for a ranger than say NAH.

oddly I have played paladins and they are often less capable in some group situations and YET can shine in others.

Yeah, we actually got to a point where we'd ranger tank Vox, Phinny, Fear, Hate and Sky before Kunark came out because Flame Licks meant aggro didn't slip - obviously Naggy has issues with that strategy, but...

It annoyed our guild leader, who was a warrior, to no end though.

As far as DPS goes...

Necromancer-strong throughout the entire game, in a few expansions they are top DPS
Rogues- kunark-PoP they are top dogs, I am not sure if after that they take the top spot again.
Rangers- Luclin and PoP they are top tier, they fall off a little bit after that and re-emerge in SoF then start falling off again.
Berserkers- im not 100% sure on them, I know they are top dogs for one maybe two expansions, they are a roller coaster tho iirc.
Beastlords- Top tier DPS through Omens, then start to fall off pretty hard
Wizards- Always top dogs for burn dps, SoF-UF they are top DPS and fall off pretty hard after that.
Mages- Kunark and velious they are very strong due to their epic, fall off in luclin and even harder in velious as melee get better gear.
Druid- Just make a cleric or wizard and be usefull
*enchanters*- There are some raid encounters where enchanters can charm, in this case nothing can come close to touching their dps.

Tanks- Once defensive gets put in the game warriors are top dogs for raid content and will never be overtaken. SK/Pally are slightly better in the group scene, but warriors can still do just fine.

If you want a DPS that NEVER has a lull, is always top tier, and sometimes top DPS you want a necro.

Necro hand of death is a nice short CD, but it can be annoying to get to proc if you don't have a mod rod. I guess you could use blood magic, but I just run in and get hit by a mob. Chaotic power has a 25 charge limit, which goes by fast if you are killing stuff with lots of hp (you'll run out of charges way before the 1 minute timer is up). But either way, necros do not have a lot of cooldowns they can keep always running, whereas mage between fire core, elemental union, and first spire, can almost always have a cooldown burning

Fierce eye is also amazing with necro dot's, I don't see it as awesome with mage nukes. I haven't been parsing, but mage nukes crit so often with max crit AA, that I don't see the extra crit % as that noticeable for them.

TLR Bard is amazing paired with necro, not as good with mage or wiz IMO