Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Dilf, May 3, 2019.
Ah I thought the stones were instant cast too. Haven't looked at them in a while.
They used to be, they got nerfed back in 2002 or so.
Some people think that I am advocating for the nerfing of the charm mechanic. I am not. Charming is a core playstyle for those classes that can use it. BUT!!! Warping a charmed mob to you is an abuse of pathing. If you want to charm something and beat stuff down till you are blue in the face, go for it. Binding yourself elswhere in the zone and then gating to that point specifically to warp the mobs to you clearly demonstrates INTENT to abuse game mechanics for uses other than intended. This is CLEAR and indesputable. Whether they have decided in the past to enforce or not it is meaningless. It has become a rather large issue and needs fixing.
Like I said, there are a few ways to fix this issue:
1: Make it so named mobs cannot be charmed. (This fixes a mutlitude of sins, and is probably the easiest and most comprehensive of the fixes. I am sure not many would care of a chanter showed up and charm gated a random non-named mob away. The issue lies in the loot dropping mobs and the intent to get the loot of that mob through nefarious unintended means.)
2: Make it so Charmed mobs never warp to their masters. (This would require the charmed mob to run all the way to where said Chanter/Necro/Druid/Bard etc gated or was CoH'd. This allows players to follow the charmed mob and attempt to dispell the charm fairly. It would affect some players that are moving through dungeons with charmed mobs and they encounter pathing issues.)
3: Make it so Charm drops immediatly when the player is shown to be moving at faster than bard speed travel. This would include Gate, CoH, Illegal Warping, or Being Res'd. (This unfortunately would not address the issue with charm and then bard speed/mount running away and having the mob warp to the charmer seconds later. But it would cover a majority of the sins. Outdoor zones would still be ripe with abusers. So AC and Quillmane would still be getting bug abusers gallore "sniping" named.)
Let me get something straight about this situation. We have a group that is killing PH's for named. Named pops and very shortly thereafter an enchanter appears, charms the named, and gates away to a location where no one seems to be able to find them.
Is this a correct assessment?
If so is this enchanter also doing the same to other named mobs in the same zone?
Is the enchanter also doing this in other zones? I don't really expect anyone to know this since any normal player using normal in game abilities can't be jumping from zone to zone checking spawns.
My point is that what's happening may have very little at all to do with charming and gating and more to do with people using hax to grab multiple named in multiple areas. If an enchanter is only interested in that one named in that one zone they have no need to be jumping around the zone like that.
I don't think you actually play on TLP servers, right? You just enjoy responding to all posts for some reason? Since ancient cyclops in Ocean of Tears was used as a prominent example of this behavior, I'll explain it for you using that as the example. When AC spawns, especially during prime hours, you'll immediately have a handful of people see it pop on their tracking or "tracking" and beeline for it.
So if our enchanter hero is only interested in killing the AC, he might be a crafty little bugger and bind himself on some obscure, far away island. Maybe next to those oh so alluring sirens or something. Then he'll hang out on the seafury isle and keep an eye on "tracking." When he runs up on the AC, even if there's a group that has it down under 50% already, he charms it, and gates away. If that other group isn't quick to dispel the charm, our enchanter hero now has his own private island featuring sexy siren concubines and an AC to kill all by himself to impress them.
So now hopefully you can see why our enchanter hero might have interest in jumping around the zone even when only interested in one named. It's not so much that they appear suddenly, but their quick disappearing act along with their target. They don't even have to be super quick to the initial spawn. They can arrive well after someone else has engaged and still execute a pretty quick steal.
Y'all are funny, I have posted that I don't believe that some of the alleged botters are using a particular 3rd party program and get jumped for defending hackers and I speculate that there's more to the enchanters grabbing named and they may be using hax and I get, "oh no! you don't understand! we have to have charmed pets gating nerfed"
People see hax that may not even be there and ignore evidence that may point to a hack if it lets them call for a nerf
Flag ac uncharmable just like effreeti djarnn is.
Instance these camps, and watch as none of these antics bother anyone ever again.
You really have no idea what is going on. Ok, here is the situation, you are camping the Ancient Cyclops in OOT and he finally spawns. Then, while your killing it a chanter runs in, charms the thing, then runs off with the mob and then gates to somewhere else in the zone (which causes the charmed AC to Warp to said enchanter.) The Enchanter can then drop the charm, and kill it with dots at his leasure because all of your party's damage was blurred due to distance / charm. Please note that the warping of charmed mobs to a character IS ABUSING A PATHING MECHANIC. This is not opinion. This is fact.
Now let's talk about possible solutions:
1: What "the vast majority" of people here are suggesting is that we flag the AC and other named mobs immune to charm. This way. It just becomes a normal DPS race. This is the closest to fair as we can get.
2: What YOU are suggesting is that DBG police the way the enchanter "finds" that said AC has spawned by focusing on SOMEHOW finding those that are using 3rd party programs and ban them. This completely ignores the fact that the AC just might spawn within the chanter's line of sight OR that the enchanter is boxing a tracking character and is actively checking. So your "fix" AKA "horrible suggestion" is that DBG spend resources they have already stated that they WILL NEVER spend to police the servers, so they can catch 1 out of the 3 possible ways that an enchanter can abuse a pathing bug?
You need to reevaluate your thinking process, as your "logic" is faulty. Please stop convoluting information that the REST OF US understand with your nonsense. Now, I am all for rooting out those that are abusing 3rd party programs, BUT this discussion is NOT ABOUT THAT ISSUE. If you want to talk about 3rd party programs then make your own damned thread. THIS THREAD is about fixing an abuse to pathing mechanics.
Bard can charm too . Usually they charm at 5% hp then kill it.
“A few more comments about Bard charm. First, Bard charm serves as a partial mem-blur. The Bard's charm will 'forget' all previous damage dealt to it, and all previous aggro caused. This is extremely useful and is a huge advantage. In order to gain full xp from a mob while soloing, you need to deal over 50% of the damage to that mob. But charming erases all memory of that damage dealt! You could have a charmed pet deal 99% of the damage to another mob, and as long as the charm breaks prior to the killing blow, you will earn 100% of the xp.”
It is impossible to get any drop the way this is working now. No Mob that drops an important quest piece should be charmable! For example try to kill an Ancient Cyclops in OOT. Someone Always warps in and charm it. This is insane! What honest gaming company allows this behavior?
Lol when people are selling AC Ring loot rights for 1kronos you think DBG will fix this anytime soon?
In actual Classic era, didn't the AC corpse poof in like 7 minutes? Does it now sit there for 30?
As an Enchanter that likes to hang out in OOT on Mangler and may or may not have a spice as a name, I do not use 3rd party software, I do not cheat at the game. I am 1 solo toon doing what my toon does best. There are various places on the island that allow someone to see many spawn points at the same time. Also, and this may come as a huge surprise to some of you, if you kill a seafury cyclops (or, say, all 7 of them on the east side) in 22 mins they will respawn ! You dont need to sit there, you can come back in 20 mins. In the meantime you can run around killing others or watching spawns or watching Game of Thrones ! WOW I know! This changes everything !! Wait, wait, wait. other zones work the same way? Frenzy in LGuk? 22 mins ! omg ! <mind blown>
(AC Corpse last 30 mins, unlocks after 15 or when items are left on corpse).
Oh, and to all the necros and mags that like to complain about Encs and bards, your pets were never intended to be so strong in classic, stop abusing the mechanics that were changed at a later expansion and over powered these classes significantly. Hax !
It works with CoTH as well. I watched someone do this on another server a couple years ago in chardok , had my rog watching their mage/cleric and followed the enc on my nec they charmed and coth was cast around same time as charm thus was was almost instant bringing charmed mob with
So what's your excuse for generally being an arsehole?
Do onto others? I have tried to kill ACs on the island, they get KSd. Its just the way the game is these days and you either adapt or spend your time crying about it
I'm pretty sure that's literally the opposite of what "Do unto others..." means.
Reminds me of a meme (before memes) in the 80s: "Do unto others... then split!"
Ok, so with this statement you have shown that you never played in 1999. IF you HAD played then, you would know that necro pets AND mage pets were FAR more powerful during classic than they are now. A lvl 50 necro could sit FD in the ghoul lord's room and his dual FS dagger hasted pet could solo every spawn in the room. But NONE of this has anything to do with the pathing mechanic abuse that is charm gating.
Having a charmed mob warp to it's new owner is an UNINTENTED side effect of having all pets warp to their owners due to a work around to pathing issues. Instead of fixing said pathing issues, they simply created a short-cut that avoided the problem all together. This wasn't added as some BUFF to enchanters so they could now gank other's kills then gate away and kill the mob to get the xp and loot. How many times do I have to explain this to you?
THIS IS ABUSE OF GAME MECHANICS OTHER THAN INTENDED!
To argue otherwise is futile and also conveys to the rest of us, that you lack reasoning skills, as well as experience.
Can we just make named mobs flag as uncharmable and be done with it already?
Separate names with a comma.