Changes with the February Update: Developer Updates

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Prathun, Feb 5, 2014.

  1. Pirouette Augur


    I believe it's been mentioned (in regards to TLP servers) before that ability changes are global and can't be unlinked. Even if not, it's not a matter of servers being laggy, it's a matter of servers crashing. Also, headshot/decap/assassinate weren't efficient in swarms of mobs, so they didn't contribute to lag.
  2. Mackinaw Lorekeeper

    This is more for the players than the Devs.

    Look, the bottom line is that the low end game is broken. It wouldn't be if there were masses of new players joining up but that's clearly not the case. In the old days every low end zone had multiple groups camping them and people waiting at the ZL LFG and picking off the inevitable train. Crushbone, Blackburrow, Runneye, Unrest, PC LGuk, CoM, Karnor's etc... All were heavily used zones up through around '04 when the perect storm of mmo's hit EQ. I'm talking about the effects of the nearly simultaneous events that were; 1) The horrific release of GoD, 2) The badly needed but ill timed graphics engine upgrade that rendered the game unplayable to a massive number of folks without major upgrades to their comp and 3), The Launch of the dreaded World of Warcraft.

    I remember this clearly because at the time I had to make the upgrade to my comp and was out for about a week. After doubling my ram and going from a 64 mb video card to a 256 mb card I was back with a vengeance but a quarter of my guild was not. The bleeding never stopped. Guilds disbanded or merged, merged again and then disbanded or simply stopped functioning and faded into obscurity. Over time server pops continued to diminish to the point where getting a low level group was in fact worse than it is today.

    TSS went a good deal toward addressing some of these issues and, IMHO was a really good move. But it wasn't enough. Prog servers also helped but it wasn't enough either. The end game was still getting farther and farther away. Now with level 100 and 12k aa's it's positively daunting for a new player.

    When I started playing the level cap was 60 and there were no aa's. There were tons of roadblocks to leveling but you had a lot less road to travel down to get to the top and there were a lot of folks to help you along the way. It's just not that way anymore and players who are looking at this game from the old perspective are simply not facing up to the reality of the situation. Does handing out these aa's bother me? Frankly, yes it does but I'm realistic enough to recognize the need for doing it. Heroic characters? Bad idea IMHO. I'm flatly opposed to that. Might as well call level 85 level one and 100 level 15 and start the game from there. Which brings me to my point...

    Nothing is ever going to set this game right until the entire low-end game is revamped. The first 50 level need to just go away except on a couple of select servers for those who want to experience it, (which I HIGHLY recommend by the way). Chars need to start at 50 and have the first 4000 aa's worth of abilities awarded as they level up the same way you get dual wield or backstab or HT etc... Then take off the aa cap and allow players to bank aa's to use as they need them upon reaching the appropriate level. Don't make new zones for each expansion, re-tool the old ones that are empty. Make the TSS zones the only starting areas and re-write all the essential quests to reflect this.

    That is what it will take to really and truly "fix" the game. I realize the oversimplification of what I just said and that, as a practical matter it probably is just not doable. I am as far from a programmer as anyone in the game but even I understand the magnitude and inherent problems of engaging in such a task. Unfortunately the sad truth is that until such a thing happens we may as well just get used to the fact that there are going to be these periodic "band-aid" fixes. Devs will have to continue to make changes, some players will turn beet red and squall like a cat with it's tail in the door while others just clench their teeth, accept reality and move on. But until they treat the disease instead of the symptoms that's how it's gonna be.

    I don't like it, but I get it. After all is said and done I'll still be here, off and on, like I have since I started.

    Good night and may whatever gods you have bless you. If you don't have any then there's this guy named Rytan who I'm sure will help you out...if you ask him.

    Mack
    Stahn, Kolani and Pirouette like this.
  3. Mangled New Member

    So the server crashes < I still would rather play on one that might crash because your having fun in the meantime /smile
  4. Mangled New Member

    Oh Fun ? have the devs asked themselves Hey is our game fun ? It used to be alot of fun , is it still fun ?
    Make it fun and they will come ...........
    Perspero likes this.
  5. Schadenfreude Augur

    If the changes will go in as in, a few Mages will still hammer Evantil instances, the servers will wilt again and another fix will need to be put in.
    Axxius likes this.
  6. Jaime New Member

    Re-posting and stealing ideas for alternatives to granting. Im only stealing because im too lazy to go back and search for the names of the original people who said them.

    Idea 1: Lower the cost of many AAs and refund the difference to players who already bought them. Example: Slay Undead ranks 1, 2 and 3 cost 3, 6 and 9 AAs. You can lower then to say 2, 4 and 6 AAs, refunding the player 6 points. Doing this to other AAs would seem less daunting for returning players, and not screw over people who already did it, but make them stronger (probably no effect to people who are already maxed out now)

    Idea 2(stolen): Use Loyalty Crowns to buy a... a gaggle of AA points, say like 200-300 crowns for 20 AAs. Keep in mind the numbers I used here in Idea 2 were just pulled outta my , if you all can think of a better ratio, go for it.

    Idea 3(i think stolen): 20 to 30 AAs for reaching level 51, 55, 60, and have these retroactive for higher level players - yes this seems like a grant, but the player can choose what they need or want.. having a choice is kinda a huge thing. And also there are 10 level achievements (im assuming) between 51 and 100 in increments of 5, totaling up to 200-300 AAs, not huge, not little, but can move people along.

    Please before commenting on Idea 3 keep in mind that doing 3 or so dailies can net you about 10-15 AA.

    Idea 4(stolen): Instead of having say 100% exp to AA, or 50% exp to AA or 0% exp to AA, why not have 100% to Regular EXP *AND* 100% to AA on all the time. I know this sounds confusing or might be hard to do. But you can turn off Regular EXP at any time, have the Glyph of Indeterminable Reward unlocked at 51 with no alaran requirement as you devs said something about at sometime.

    Note that even I think Idea 4 might be an innately terrible idea. From personal exp hunting solo at 83 with LOTD on, and 90% exp going to AA I made roughly 20-22 AA during those 30 minutes. And with 0% exp to AA I can also make 3 oranges with of Regular exp in another 30 minutes of LOTD(Hunting in Hills of Shade as a paladin with slay undead with no merc).. and re-reading all of Idea 4 is confusing, holy .

    Idea 5: If you devs are really and truly determined to give us the Grant, at least give us a choice in what AAs we want. As I said before there are many many undesirable AAs for certain classes, and all classes. A Ranger would not have as much use/need/want for Healing AAs then the Paladin would, but giving them to the Ranger would slow them down in the long run once they reach the 4k AA bonus.

    Packrat, Bind Wound AAs, Innate str/cha/sta/lung/see invis/ect, Hybrid Research/Songwriting, Mastery of the Past.. all these things are stuff I dont want on my character even if you give them out for free, and I cant think of many classes who would get use out of these particular AAs.
  7. dreadlord Augur


    So on one hand we are told that our feedback on these "plans" is wanted.
    Yet here you say "these changes WILL be part of..." in other words, regardless of the hundreds of pages of comments (taking the two threads together) this is going to happen whether your playerbase wants it or not?

    If it's a done deal then say so and save us all a lot of time in trying to explain why these are dealbreaking plans/decisions
    frediefreeloader likes this.
  8. Quilix Elder

    Oh well - spent almost 2 days on these threads - they are growing so quick. Some issues are getting quick reply from SOE and they are making changes :) - other things are getting no reply or comment so I guess they have already made their minds up about those. The whole thread has pretty much now turned into some sort of I'm right and your wrong posting war with the same people clicking like on each others posts on both sides :rolleyes: - some people even got abusive about it, but we have the report button and ignore lists for them :p. I'm off to play game now before the newest spam chants start hitting the servers.

    "Don't know how to play your new Heroic Char? - Guilds not accepting you because it would hold them back to train you up? - AA grind too hard now that the curve has been used up? - Why not pay us to get you up to running speed so that you can start enjoying the game" ;)

    But seriously probably anything useful that needed to be said in the thread has now probably been said - I know that people joining this thread now don't know this (unless they spent a day reading everything that has gone before) so we are just seeing mostly the same ideas being put forward again and the same people attacking those ideas again - And an obvious bias on what gets a reply form SOE and what dosn't.

    Too those that seem to be treating this as just some way of upping your post count so you can get a cool forum title :rolleyes:. These ideas were meant for SOE - If you feel that the idea is not justified then why not create a reply post to SOE explaining your alternative good ideas instead of just trying to belittle others for their ideas.

    Feel free to spam reply to this post if you like - I won't see it :p
    Perspero likes this.
  9. Bishhop New Member

    Will there be an I win button? An auto grant level 100, 10K aa's and raid gear? I am seriously considering finding a new game to play.
    Perspero and Barnwyr like this.
  10. Augmentation New Member

    I remember before the marketplace was launched SOE reps had insisted that they were not selling items to increase the power of a character.

    But fast forward to the present, we are at the dawn of possibly witnessing a hand out of 4000AA's and 85 on characters - for a price of course..

    That will destroy the integrity of this game. I agree in helping the returning players to earn AA's faster. So why is it that the devs are overlooking boosting the AA bonus system already in place...Please consider just Increasing the bonus percentage at zero AA's from 1000% to maybe 1500% and the range for this bonus to 5-6K AA's.

    That is 15 times what it used to be with a linear decline as they reach the limit of the bonus AA spread...
    Janakin and Barnwyr like this.
  11. Bloodclaws Journeyman

  12. Janakin Augur

    After reading some more posts. I think if you do decide to do the AA grant, give it to not only people who go gold but make it also only available to people who own CotF. When the next expansion comes out and you grant more AA's, make that only available to people who bought the new expansion. This will be an incentive for people to remain gold and keep on playing.
    Caell and Avaa like this.
  13. Saeadyan Elder

    I am about to get ripped a new one but whatever, everyone is entitled to their opinion it is one of the beautiful things about living in the "FREE" world !! I can see both sides really in that people worked so hard to get their 15k AAs and want people to work for them as well. That is one side , the other is they come to this amazing game called Everquest and realize that not only do they need to get to level 100 but then they also have to gain thousands of these things called AAs to make their character viable. I have many friends who tried EQ and loved it but this idea killed it for them, they left because it was just way to daunting a prospect spending months playing moloing alone till they are worth grouping with.

    This will give what 4k AAS? That is a joke in the reality of 15+ k AAs to max out. You still need to gain another 11k AAs and that will take work. All this does is give the newer person a chance of being a decent character, not elite, hell not even highly effective, just DECENT!

    I for one like this idea Prathun and salute you Devs for coming up with this game plan to tackle a massively daunting problem for new players!
    That is my 2 cents worth and you can take it or leave it I really don't care I just want the thankful voice to be heard also. :)
    Kolani and Mintalie like this.
  14. Quilix Elder

    Does this sound familiar ?


    Media outlets criticized the changes of the "Combat Upgrade"[ while subscription cancellations rose. After the New Game Enhancements were implemented in November 2005, sparking huge demonstrations in-game from the majority of players, various media outlets criticized the reduced depth and complexity of the game, but John Smedley, president of Sony Online Entertainment, defended the decision claiming it necessary to revamp the game in order to reverse the deterioration they were seeing in the subscriber base. SOE offered refunds on the Trials of Obi-Wan expansion due to it being released two days before the NGE was implemented. The development team affirmed this was their desired direction for the game and that they would modify parameters to address player's concerns. Features such as expertise trees were later added to the game to add complexity and differentiation to characters. After the announcement that SOE had acquired the game Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Smedley addressed that game's players about the perceived threat of major changes to the game: "We've learned a thing or two with our experiences with the NGE and don't plan on repeating mistakes from the past and not listening to the players."
    Subscriber numbers were originally expected to exceed 1,000,000. In August 2005, SOE reported that they had sold 1,000,000 boxed copies of the game. In early 2006, unconfirmed reports showed that only 10,363 subscribers were playing on a particular Friday night, but Smedley denied that subscriptions had fallen this low.
    In an online interview with the social media site reddit in July 2012, John Smedley admitted to "stupid decisions" regarding Star Wars Galaxies combat upgrade and new gaming enhancement policies, and acknowledged player led projects seeking to restore a free to play Galaxies circa April 2005, Publish 14.1, pre-Combat Upgrade, such as the SWGEmu project.

    Wikipedia Star Wars Galaxies



    Really ?

    So we now know that if they do not listen to valid player concerns then this attitude originates from the top of the company and not the poor devs and CS that are taking the flack for everything - I.e. they will do what they are told to do even if it does finish the game. :(
    Janakin, Caell, Perspero and 2 others like this.
  15. Equanimity Journeyman

    Regarding the defensive proc spell changes; rather than imposing an absolute cap on the number of times that the spells can trigger, might it not be better to allow the spells to regenerate uses every tick? For example, Shining could proc 6 times per tick, every 6 seconds the count would be reset to 6 procs, for the duration of the spell. In this way, they would still serve their intended function, retain a predictable duration, and provide a control to prevent abuse. Thank you.
    Sphaera likes this.
  16. Mozzarella Elder

    A change triggered by, apparently, the fact that countless players have reported leaving the game because AAs were too hard to get. Over the years I've witnessed about 20 of my friends leaving EQ, and not ONE of them left for this reason. Sure 20 is not much, but it's enough to get an idea. I'd say that finishing new CotF content in about a week would be a better reason not to bother logging in again. But yet, you push people toward an end-game that is tremendously lacking in content; what do you expect will happen in the long run?

    As usual you drop radical changes on us based on very obscure "feedback" that only you can see, or invent, and then ignore 90% of the constructive posts (so many people have offered smart ways to gain AAs faster for "new" players without angering half the community, and by somehow deserving them...). That's everything but transparent. Please stop saying that our feedback is of great importance if you're going to disregard anything that doesn't more or less agree with your choices. We're dumb players sure, just not THAT dumb.

    Many of us see the AA gift as the desperate money-grab that it is. Not a very well-thought one though: flooding the end game with players clueless as far as how their class works and giving little to no incentive to pay more than one month of gold membership cannot end well in the long run.

    Why do you think people play Everquest after more than a decade, really? I know I do because I've spent thousands of hours on my chars, I feel as if I've accomplished something yes, this is not the case in any other game and probably never will be. Call it pride, call it elitism, but the fact is that if you take away this feeling of achievement from the old players I have no reason at all not to try another MMO with better graphics, better gameplay, less bugs...

    The AA "gift" may bring you curious players for a while, maybe give you some green to buy better coffee machines, but you will NEVER get players that will stick around for another decade from this. You are trading a fair part of an ancient community for a quick buck.

    This kind of behaviour makes sense for a game that has yet to build a strong playerbase, not for Everquest.
  17. drkoli Augur



    Heck I made a gold mage and within a month I had it lvl96 with 3200AA

    Its not hard to do, people just want easy mode and don't like to work for what they want anymore
    Caell, Melanippe, Lloren and 2 others like this.
  18. Ronthorn Oakenarm Augur

    Focused Rain of Arrows and the multi target versions on its timer as well as Forecasted shots are not really a Nuke they are a combat ablity tied into a spell.
  19. kramer2202 Elder

    Making a change to help new players and piss off everyone else = priceless
    duo13 and Barnwyr like this.
  20. duo13 Elder

    allow players to quickly get up to speed without completely eliminating the need to invest time in their character
    am I reading this right ..
    if they don't have time to invest in there character maybe they should play another game