Changes with the February Update: Developer Updates

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Prathun, Feb 5, 2014.

  1. Pirouette Augur

    I got tired of speculating, so I decided to just create a spreadsheet with all post-UF AA to express how much playtime is still necessary to fulfill a class's single role in a group. I have no idea what classes draw the shorter end of the stick post-85 AA requirements so I simply chose a class that I'm going to build: Shadowknight.

    I picked only AAs that would make me a more effective tank and completely ignored DPS other than Gift of the Quick Spear which can have help with snap aggro. This includes survivability, jolt, and a very frugal choice of utility such as Helix of the Undying. This does not mean that I picked ALL items that increase a certain kind of utility, but rather 'the best bang for the buck'. Harm Touch was not included simply because it falls under the 'General' tab (I only chose post-UF AAs, I have no idea how much of HT will be included in the grant), but is still a staple AA that should be upgraded.

    A Shadowknight is added to a grind group not because of his ability to DPS but because of his ability to tank. There are exceptions (utility of HT) that don't contribute to the point I'm making. Mind you that most classes don't enjoy the same privilege of only being expected to bring one role to the group. Examples would be Shaman/Druid who are more likely spec'ing out in DPS while a Cleric Merc heals for them, but most groups would still expect these classes to be fully capable of taking over healing if the need arose. If anyone wants to do a spreadsheet of one of these classes to compare what might be a heavier AA burden, feel free: I copy and pasted what I found on onto a spreadsheet, fairly simple process.

    My findings for Shadowknight indicate 2,315 AAs Post-UF to fulfill their basic obligations as a Tank. Just doing the level 90+Alternate dailies nets about 20 AAs per day (past the 4K curve), or 116 days (4 months) to finish off his tanking line with absolutely no DPS specs other than what's provided in the grant. In order to even purchase these AA's the tank is still going to need to level up. I don't really know what kind of exp returns there are per level from dailies and it's pointless for me to speculate, but I'll mention that I've been doing only dailies on my boxes since the double EXP weekend in December (about 2 months) and they've gone from 91-98 with 27% AA xp on. I did play almost nonstop during double EXP weekend but I also had an entire week without play, so it should even out.

    Now that you have some solid numbers and expectations about the grant, discuss. No point speculating without something solid to use as your basis, especially when everyone's definition of 'caught up' is different. If caught up means being able to group with level 100s and providing the bare minimum of your class, then there's at least 6 more months to achieve that ignoring time spent on farming gear/augs/epic/clickies, which isn't particularly difficult now given what's available on HA merchants. What kind of time investment should these players expect to have to be grouping with level 100s? Is 6 months too steep or too low? Is it about right?

    And since I'm sure some people might be skeptical of the choices I made on my SK's spread sheet, you can view or download it here. I won't pretend to be an expert on SKs: Criticism is welcome but keep in mind you're just as free to change that spreadsheet and post the information as I am, a more productive option.
    Deloehne, Garshok and Harabakc like this.
  2. Gutzz Journeyman

    There's a lot of people that do the 85 daily from Franklin Teek. At 0 AA's, doing that 1 task will get you 30+ AA's. Not sure how many you can save at 85. Not uncommon on my server to see 'LFG Daily' for the level 85 and 90's ones. Not sure about the lower ones. As others have replied, you're looking at only 1500 AA for DPS. So 1 task done 1 time, already 1/50th (maybe more/maybe less) the power of gifted 4-7k aa, if you invest them. This lasts for about 1000 aa's before you might even see a slowdown.

    In the case of the 85+ Franklin Teek tasks, on Tunare it's fairly easy to get a group unless you're doing it at off hours.

    They may be behind while getting close to 4k mark on AA's, but once there they can pop the gift and suddenly they'll be much further ahead.
  3. Quilix Elder

    Just checking here - did you mean 'without' JS in the loop? - In a silly way I would be happier if JS was not in the loop ;)
  4. Pirouette Augur

    There's 30 AAs banked below 91. After 91, you can bank 50 AAs. I'm not masochistic enough to find out how much a 91 with 0 AAs gets from the dailies.
  5. sinderkad Augur

    not really, most of the best AAs are at the end of AA lines that would be given in the gift. As i have said previously the only way grinding first is better is if others are directly helping you to 100 when u have little to no AAs. You can then grind for some of the AA lines that didn't previously exist. But if that is the case you have very knowledge people helping you and telling you what to do anyway. You are not the target for this. Alvl 85 with 4000AA already can get to 100 by himself much easier vs soloing to 100 with little to no AA.
    All of what i have said is targeted at new players not people with super friends to carry them along the way. If you do have those "super friends" to help you then you can game the system for even more benifit vs the current one.
  6. Darzag Elder

    It really is silly to say that you played for ten years to get your toon to where it is so others should have to take ten yeras as well.
    ONE If it takes new players ten years to get where you are, they will never get to top level.
    TWO Top level players do sometimes leave the game. If you want to have top level players coming up to replace them, then some way has to be found to allow the new players to advance faster than you did.
    SONY is just helping us all out by making it possible to have players to replace losses to the top raiding guilds.
    It is time for peeps to get over themselves and see that this is going to be good for the game. There are over a hundred pages on this topic. Most posts are written by the same 8 or 10 haters saying the same thing over and over. If you had fun playing your character during the last 10 years, then that was time well spent. This is after all entertainment. We all need to see the big picture here. If Sony doesn't make it easier for new players to advance, then there will come a time when there are no new players. EQ has a really steep learning curve. Let's all give it a try and see if it is maybe a good system. If it isn't, then we can petition Sony to change it.
    dreama121 and sinderkad like this.
  7. Garshok Augur

    If all you have done is get AAs up through Underfoot and none from HOT, VOA, ROF or COTF, yes.

    Assuming that you have focused on the lines most critical to your class and taken those up to COTF, no - you will be ahead, both in total AAs and also power-wise.
    Pirouette likes this.
  8. Slasher Augur

    Jolt ill avoid getting a 3 day ban for calling you something I should. Jolt does nothing for aggro reduction a 250k spell proc gets a class with no spell sub AAs.
  9. Gutzz Journeyman

    Fulfill a role v.s. finish out a role are not the same thing. So 4months to finish all the Tanking AA's? I didn't read your spreadsheet and don't know SK's. People I group with don't require EVERY job role AA to do their job. If that's just CA/CS + a few hate generation aa's, then it seems a bit pricey.
  10. sinderkad Augur

    Its not 1500 AAs from zero. it is 1500ish if you take the gift from the start which grants you a large number of them. From zero it would be much much more
  11. Pirouette Augur

    I'm aware of that. The numbers I offered are conservative. I also filled out the ranks of every line, rather than calling it good a few ranks down (which I'm sure most groups would be happy to take you in if you were missing a few ranks of whatever). And there is a LOT more than CA/CS for tankiness. There's tons of lifetap AAs, hasten discs, Shield Block, Armor of Wisdom, topping off mystical attuning (SKs have more self buffs than most classes and constantly linger at the top. Arguably the UF MA is good enough if you don't sit AFK in lobby). Some utility also translates into better tankiness (Immobilizing Bash: if it's stunned, it's not hitting you). For every AA I've mistakenly added there's probably some I'm missing (for example, I ignored discordant defiance since pre-UF DD already gets you pretty high on the resists)
    Garshok and Harabakc like this.
  12. Gutzz Journeyman

    Not even about super friends, more about a case of knowing where you should go (in this case knowing about Franklin Teek and hotzones). But, yeah, if you 85 and solo'd/molo'd all the way, you probably don't even know there's a 0-4k AA experience modifier. Ignorance is bliss I guess. The 85 hotzone has other level 85s and higher going lfg.

    I wouldn't be surprised if a Tank Merc + Cleric merc is all that's needed to do these ...and players sit back and do nothing (except for the snare part...gotta hate mobs running away). Each class has advantages and disadvantages, tanks have a fairly high disadvantage AA disadvantage for just surviving their job. Necro, Wizard, Druid were typical solo classes in the old days. Others could, but not sure many did. If the person is so anti-group, should recommend those classes. Nowadays would also add Magician in that list.
  13. Aeilnien New Member

    Simple solution to the AA issue....

    Since AA experience is a scaling bonus that gets smaller the more AA's you have then why not just give the AA experience earned (no not the total AA's) at 4000AA's.

    For are like me and I have a level 85 warrior with 1800AA's.
    Grant him the 4000 AA's then give him on top of that the 1800 AA experience total which can be used towards AA's past 4000. Although I might get a lot less AA points for this I would find that acceptable even if it were 900AA's worth of AA experience. That would mean I now have 4900AA's. I think this method would be much more fair to those of us who have spent 15 years paying for this game.

    Otherwise why am I even playing now? I will let my account run out of gold for a few months and let this be sorted out. Then and only then I might decide to come back with paying for another gold account.

    Nerfing is a great idea. I have always felt that people should earn their levels....that is why this game was great the first 3 years.....
    Tazwolf likes this.
  14. Pirouette Augur

    Too late to edit my post, but just finished my dailies at level 100 and got 13 AA's for both of the level 90 tasks. 4 AAs from the OBF mission. 17-18 AAs per day (post 4k bonus) if all you do is log on, do dailies, log out. Considering most people stick around a little longer somedays, and log off later (or not at all) on other days, I'd still wager 4 months to fill out 2315 AAs for the casual player (~3 hours/day).
  15. Idee New Member

    I have three level 100 characters with maxed AA. The idea of leveling another character and grinding out the base AA, including all the pre-requisite ones for later important ones, just wants me to go do something else. I can certainly see new players and returning players having similar reactions. Grinding out hundreds of AA in a day is not feasible for most players who don't have hours and hours to spend.
    Some seem to think it's easy to get a character to level 85+, without PL or boxing, it is not. It will take a long time even when using mercenaries, and, you really need to stop and get some AA along the way.
    With the new auto grant AA I can definitely see myself starting a new character without feeling exasperated when looking at the list of AA.
    For those who don't like to get AA given to them but instead grinding them there is the option of opting out, which was said, can be toggled on and off as you level.
    I think this is a good way to entice new players to come play EQ. You get to level your character and get some help along the way with the AA so you can better enjoy the game.
    dreama121 likes this.
  16. Quilix Elder

    If we keep making threads this long I am worried about the forums starting to bounce up and down like the UCS :D
    Velric likes this.
  17. sinderkad Augur

    If you have the time can u tell us how many AAs you feel would max out an SK's tanking without taking the AAs from the gift. This would give us a good idea of how it effects tank classes.
  18. Tazwolf New Member

    Ok this is an idea that everyone would fine fair ...if this doesn't go down fair ..I am gone.
  19. Beatslayer Journeyman

    Get ready for some wishful thinking,

    Instead of calculating the path from each mob within a large swarm to the player, perhaps you could only worry about calculating the epicenter of the swarm reaching the player. Then, each mob within this swarm simply attempts to remain close to the swarm, a much simpler computation than finding a path to a player a much further distance away.

    Massive pulls are by far some of the most fun times I've ever had in EQ; something I still enjoy doing. I've played a handful of other MMORPGs and none have allowed for the massive trains you can find in EQ.
    rune00 likes this.
  20. Pirouette Augur

    Without GoM and GotQS?


    Without GotQS, 2300.

    Edit: Sorry, misunderstood. I planned to do this already =) Will have it up a bit later. If you want a quick answer, my SK is at 88 and tanks HA's at 985 AAs spent on nothing but tanking, but that includes all current ranks of Mortal Coil.