Changes with the February Update: Developer Updates

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Prathun, Feb 5, 2014.

  1. sinderkad Augur

    You are exaggerating quite a lot. Many of the core AA lines for every class starts pre-underfoot. Also consider the fact that many AA lines have deminishing returns the further up you go on them. While not an optimal investment scheme they will be far from useless. A person starting with all AA through underfoot vs someone start from zero would be dramatically in favor of the person with those AAs and WILL have a very definite effect on their individual power and performance, More than enough for them to be able to fill in the gaps afterward.
    Also the number count would be closer to 5000 AAs maybe more.
  2. sinderkad Augur

  3. Gutzz Journeyman

    Probably going to work more like vet rewards claim on characters with multiple years. You have been awarded . . . . ... spam of most of the underfoot and under AA's.
    You won't be able to spend them the way you like. You either choose to get them or don't. Only limitation is example: at level 56 you'd only get the level 56 and lower buyable AA's and then can turn it off and not receive the 57-85 AA's.
  4. Harabakc Augur

    Who levels to 84 without doing any AA? Intelligent AA selection is the reason the bonus matters. If you were gaining every AA as you gain levels you'd be wasting what bonus there is, and gain very little actual character power. As a necro you don't get most of your AAs that extend dot length until 91+, I think there is 1 rank prior. Those on their own are MASSIVE upgrades. All of the dot crit AAs are limited to 1-2 ranks at level 84. A small amount of mana regen, or stats are infinitely incomparable to making dots more effective. That's just 1 class with 1 small example of why getting rid of the bonus at level 84 is a bad tactic.

    It would be idiotic of me playing my necro to give up my bonus and gain relevant AAs at a slower rate for a bunch of freebies that no one takes until AFTER they have the good ones in the first place. The people it screws up are tanks, who truly have to have CA/CS and are left debating taking the freebies and making 85+ take longer, or doing those 31 free ranks(400-500ish AAs) under bonus and spending what would have been free.

    The freebies will offer approx. 7 ranks to each of the planar stats, that's it. At rank 8 you're already in HoT AAs. I'm not taking issue with "helping" people climb the AA mountain faster, but I disagree that this is the method to do it. This is an easy broad base gimmie to make it look faster.
    Pirouette likes this.
  5. Quilix Elder

    Please reflect on this bit of logic - They need to make more money so are bringing in Heroic Chars - They need the Heroic Chars to have a basic set of AA to get them going (can't be a hero on 0 AA) - They need to appease the player base a bit about this so they give us the same AA's - Mean while nerf biggest means of people PL'ing so there is no competition for their Heroic Chars, if you want a high level char quick then you have to buy it from them. So imo don't expect too many changes - in fact if it was my business decision then I would have presented a very tough set of changes to begin with, all the time knowing how far I would fall back to appease the masses and make them feel grateful by the end. Then just to cover their back - We are all getting moved to an all access plan instead of an EQ subscription (very generous - but why if you need money badly?) which as far as I can see is the fall back if Heroic Chars don't work and they have to "Sunsett" EQ :( then there is no need to offer reimbursement of any kind to any body as it is not an EQ subscription you now have, and there will still be some other SOE games you can access.

    If money is so tight that they have to do this then why bless us with a "free" pass to all games ? While I am sure that each game has it's own budget each year and is expected to make profit - at the end of the day it is all money coming into SOE. But this option gives them great flexibility as to what to do with games without the customer base being able to have any leverage - it is a very well thought out business strategy!

    I totally hope I am wrong and that EQ survives many more years :)
    Geroblue and Gutzz like this.
  6. sinderkad Augur

    And how Many AAs would it take you to fill most of those massive upgrades in? Really think about it. Even is you gained those AAs more slowly you still have tons of other AAs that will be give that increase DPS allowing you to kill at a rate that nearly makes up the difference. As an example Necros get 9 levels of critical afflication AAs by Underfoot, and many more goodies that you cant just ignore. How many more AAs would they have to spend to get the really important ones? 1000 maybe, 1500? yes theres lots of little upgrades but you and I both know some AAs are WAY more effective then others and they don't add up to too much.

    Are you really going to argue that a person starting at zero AA's will reach the top teir faster vs a person starting at 4000+? Do you really think a person can get from zero to 5kAA faster than someone who starts at 4-5K and needs 1-1.5k more? The answer is Not really, No.
    You need to stop thinking of just the effictivness of power per AA and more on the overall picture and time spent.
    I don't actually like the way they are doing it as it stands but most of the post on here just make me laugh.
    The only legitimate complaints i have seen thus far are that new players should have to work for them in some way, and i agree to an extent but those players do need some form of help to caught up. Each expansion adds more barriers and this problem has been ignored for far too long.
  7. Gutzz Journeyman

    I'm ALL for Heroic Chars getting AA's pre-built into them. (I'm not for them, but if they're going to sell them they should have them) I'm not for the gifting of the 4-7k whatever AA's either. If they want to appease the player base, it's should be a simple modification of the 0-4k modifier .... give it 2-10x the amount it currently has. If it's to appease and push for gold subscriptions, make it a prestige item or clickie(must equip) that modifies it.

    We can see the stuff on the horizon, saying the changes are 100pct unrelated to HC's would be disingenuous.
  8. sinderkad Augur

  9. Harabakc Augur

    After the 9 ranks of critical affliction, there are more than 9 ranks of other AA lines that increase dot criticals. There are 3-4 different AA lines that further increase it. 0-4k is what I'm addressing, that's where the bonus ends and most every class has the vitals by that point. Did you see the post where he lists how many AAs are left remaining after the freebies? It's on page 17 of the first post and I've repeated it at least once in this thread. The LEAST any class has remaining is 3700 something for Berserkers, Rogues follow behind at 4200, mages/shaman and another class are over 5700 remaining AAs.

    I know rogues cap at around 9200 total AAs, meaning that's 5000 freebies and the vast majority of worthwhile AA still remain. Massive strike, flurry, all those points of triple backstab, All of the piercing enhancing AAs, damage and duration on Rogue's Fury(where all our burn power comes from). The bulk of character power comes from 85+, not before it. My rogue is at 5100 and I've already taken a big chunk of utility AAs and I have all the dps upgrades, I have CA/CS maxed. So what precisely is so great about the freebies? Prior to leaving the bonus I had most of the ones that mattered.

    You've obviously under estimating how many AAs remain. They're not going need 1-1.5k more, they're going to need 2-3k more. At level 85 I had around 1500-2000 AA which was all the major stuff at that point. So what am I going to gain from giving up the bonus for another 3000 AA that aren't that useful? What this all boils down to is it's a very inefficient way to help people catch up.
  10. Gutzz Journeyman

    They're not saying a person going from 0-5k VS person going from 4-5k. The comparison is more person going 0-1k + the 4k gift VS the 4k-5k. Obviously you have the overlapping AA's issue and it's not 4k AA's (varying by class also). Making 1000aa's with bonus is a lot easier than making 1000aa's without the bonus, especially with the Franklin Teek Dailies.
    (They would probably want to get closer to the 4k before popping the gift)
  11. Langya Augur

    They won't ever outright say that. Elidroth seemed to take offense about the suggestion that the two are directly related but all that does is insult the players' intelligence and make him look like a flimflam artist. What will come of it? Lots more complaining. A bunch of people will say they are quitting. A few might actually even go through with it. I can't claim to be a fan of all the changes but I understand the need for them. The Dev team also knows that the players can put 2 and 2 together as far as the strategy concerning the roll out of the purchasable lvl 85 toons that can also, conveniently, get them AAed up to that level as well.

    • Swarming nerf: Whether you look at it from the hardware woes or players being annoyed with zone disruption or the disproportionate rate of exp acquisition that places some classes in a position to dominate powerlvling for had to be done. It was unsustainable. They also could have been far more ruthless about it...and still could be ruthless about it in the future with summoning mobs dispersed in zones.
    • Gifting AA: There is without a doubt a mountain to climb in order to acquire enough AA to participate in where most of the players are. It is understandable that many consider the AA mountain climb to BE EQ. As in if you make the mountain smaller, then you diminish the game experience. I get why people would have their butts chaffed about it. The usual misery demands company routine, but at lower levels there is no company to be miserable with. This is not the end of the world. If you want to quit over it? Grats on being unreasonable I guess and discounting EVERY OTHER aspect of the game. Be sure you actually go through with quitting if robbing yourself of enjoyment of the game over AA grants is worth it, otherwise you are a person whose word means nothing. Just keep in mind that if you come back later, it will be easier to catch up.
    • Heroic Characters: This. This again...I get it, but what a horrible precedent. Times do change, but somewhere it might have been said that they were not going to sell power, than that they would not sell power to this degree. Well, apparently it has all come full circle with sanctioned plat sales with Krono to buying characters conveniently labeled as Heroic. $med is no fool when it comes to making money and the game needs to make money, but what has been done is turn a black market into a grey market. If Sony wants to sell lvl 85 characters with 4-5k AA, than there is nothing anyone can do to stop them. People will certainly spend the money if the fee is reasonable and it is like pennies from heaven for Sony since its pretty much no effort for SoE to make a character. Just do us all a favor and re-invest the money from EQ back into EQ. Don't divert it off to some pie in the sky soon to fail project. If you are going to fleece the EQ customers, than at least give some back to them in the form of quality content and enhancements to the game. Heck, some of us would settle just for having it run right.
    Hiby and Petts like this.
  12. sinderkad Augur

    No really they wouldn't, unless someone is PLing them to 100 straight away. If they dont have a PL or super box it is much more effective to just take the AAs and then fill in the gaps by grinding. Yes you grind slower per AA but really end result is massive time saving overall. Yes a person who indivudally invested and earned each AA with the bonus would eventually over take the other person in power (Asuming they have much more play time than the other and eventually starting getting caught up in AA count.) but play time and other outside factors being equal it just makes more sense to just take the AAs.

    With Zero AAs you kill at a snails pace relative to someone with 4k+, even if they are not optimally invested. If one lvl 85 started at zero AAs and another 85 started with the gift and they both played equal amounts the gifted one who quite simply do everything faster.
    -A 85 with gifted AAs could more easily get to 100 and then start AAing again
    -A 85 with gifted AAs starts off running with superior DPS and utility vs a person with zero who eventually gets there but starts like a snail.
    -A 85 with gifted AAs would be able to just fill in the really important AA's easily (1-1.5k AA grind) and also starts with many of the most important AA lines half or more filled.
    Stop thinking about it in terms of "if i invest my AA properly and we get to the same point in AAs ill be much better" because the fact is that by the time you catch up a bit to them they will have tons more AAs that fill in that less optimal path's inefficiency.
    So many people are so used to having AAs that they forget the effect even old AAs had. Having the ability to PLalts completely blinds them to simple facts.
    The overall time investment favors the gifted person, hands down.
  13. sinderkad Augur

    You simply dont appreciate how few of those 9000 AAs actually matter in the grand scheme of things. my Bst was completely maxed on AA in SoD with around 4.5ish AA when i quit EQ for a time. He is now 100 with less than 6000AA and has EVERY SINGLE DPS AA. (and nearly full CS/CA) Mileage varies for some classes but not by much for what is truly important to that class. My Bst is a perfect example of how a person gifted with AAs through underfoot would only need 1500 more AAs to get 90%+ of the benefits. If I started my bst over and got the same number of AAs to spend freely i might be able to invest a bit more efficiently for utility's sake but i would laugh at anyone who actually suggested I start him over for a 1% benefit to things i dont fully need.
    Again i say to you sir, diminishing returns!
    Do the math good sir, add up the costs of those big bang for your buck AAs. 9 more levels of dots crits? let us be generous as say every one of those cost 15 each. 135 AA? How many more AA lines give such huge dps returns cause i think you would be suprise how little they cost total if u cut out some of the weaker AA clickies.
    Tanks might, MIGHT fall out of this equation but even then, if you dont have outside help it would still probably behoove them to just take the AAs
  14. Harabakc Augur

    Catching up is all about efficiency. I have 4 silver accounts I box when I need them, I'm acutely aware of the power of AAs. Those 4 accounts are limited to 1k AA. It's ALL about picking the best ones.
  15. Harabakc Augur

    You're making my point for me and don't even realize it. I've leveled from 65 to 100 with 5100 AA on my main in the last year, I'm very familiar with trying to catch up. Congrats, you've managed to name 1 class that might not be as heavily effected as many others. Quite frankly I'm rather amazed they have such a poor AA selection post 85. In my experience that's not typical of other classes.
  16. sinderkad Augur

    I actually have 5 character that are lvl 100 and several at 90. I can assure you that it is indicative of most classes. The only classes i am not personally familiar with are nercos, SKs, zerker and rouge. You need to look at the actual calculation on returns for your AAs, many sound nice but barely do anything to your DPS vs others.
    Please do go actually add up how many AAs you think you will need to be maxed on DPS with your 5100, i would be very suprised if the number was more than 1500. (i say DPS, not everything else)
    PS: Saying my evidence is only the exception to the rule and not presenting any of your own is a straw man argurement
  17. Deckerd Smeckerd Augur

    Well, people keep saying that SOE is going to lose their hats over this because they just want to make their Gold membership more appealing to people willing to pay for it. They say, "I gots 4 accounts of Bots". Well maybe they did consider they would lose those 4 accounts and maybe they don't think that they will make money off the changes right away. Maybe they are prepared to take some losses. Maybe they think the game will just plain be better with these changes and are willing to pay the price. You know what I think, I bet a change this big doesn't get made with John Smedley in the loop and I'm sure his team have considered potential losses.
  18. SoroxDrinal Elder

    The first time you do 3 dailies at 92/0, you get about 125 AAs for 15 kills... A 92/0 toon gets 100+ AAs during their first lesson in a duo. In that first hour with super toon, you get ~250ish AAs.

    You don't need to kill fast. You do the dailies and lesson burns(duo preferably).
  19. Fenthen Living rent free in your headspace

    You'll receive all AAs up to Underfoot that are required level 68 and lower, if you are level 68 and enable that checkbox.
  20. sinderkad Augur

    And if you wanted to do more than daily and lesson? I never claimed it wasn't possible but the bonus goes down linearly when you get more AAs. How much farther ahead would a person starting at 4k+ have vs a person starting at zero and just doing dailies and lesson. It would take an average of 2 months of the exact same dailies and lessons to get to 4000 AA. for a vet this is manageable because they can often just hope on their main to enjoy the game, but for a new player is would be unbearable with only a vague idea of the supposed reward just visible on the horizon and that's not counting leveling pass 92. no matter how you cut it the bonus doesn't outpace the simple straight up gift.You can read my other comments to see why