Changes with the February Update: Developer Updates

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Prathun, Feb 5, 2014.

  1. Quilix Elder

    This made me lol - and unfortunately I don't think the issue is reserved to FB:)

    I saw some where that the Devs were looking at the possibility of new AA's in game. Going to throw forward a suggestion here for consideration (will include a small amount of dialogue just to show how it could be included into the feel of the game).

    AA - Knowledge of English

    "The God Eng'lish has blessed your knowledge of written symbols - You have been granted the Book of Eng'lish" (at this point a book would pop on your cursor just like the Hero's Journey one - except this book would open a browser window to an online dictionary)

    Then we could have

    AA - Spell Check

    "You have been granted mystical knowledge into the funny red lines that have been haunting your vision - You are now aware that this infers that the great God Eng'lish can not decipher what your written symbols are meaning - You have also been granted the ability Right Click - This will summon a mystical window that allows you to receive help with your symbols directly from The Book of Eng'lish"

    :D
  2. Casia Apprentice

    There must be some weird reverse image thing that happens from the Dev side of things because all your decisions look like backwards thinking to me.
    #1- Server lag from swarm pulls. Fix: Nerf front end(user/customer end) mechanics to fix back end(server/hardware/code) issues. Backwards thinking.
    You fix back end problems on the back end not take it out on the end user.
    #2- Nerf/betray/hurt current customer base in order to attract some numinous new player base floating out there in the ether that has been holding off for 15 years to give you their money with the next big fix.
    Backwards thinking.
    Customer retention first. Adding new clients second.
    #3-Warping people into endgame content=groups and fun.
    Making mercs undesirable. Creating special difficult mechanics that require certain classes. Anything that FORCES players to group in order to artificially create groups.
    Backwards thinking. You can't force grouping. People will play their way or they will leave.
    Scenario: Heroic Character to 85. All relevant AAs. Player asks what now? Gets sent to CotF and new 85 HAs because that's where people are and they can get currency while leveling. They do PuGs. Buy their gear. Finish leveling AAing. Done. Their experience of the vast depth and breadth of EQ is the 3-4 easiest HAs from CotF. They still have no friends. They still rely on the mercy of PuGs that probably don't need them in the first place. Levels and AAs don't fix that.
    If you don't believe me try being a well geared,well AA'd, high level, grouping rogue and try and get a group.
    #4-Getting to the end game with no sense of accomplishment, growth, exploration, or tribulation=achieving the goal and appeal of EQ.
    Backward thinking. It just is.

    IF YOU REALLY WANT TO PROMOTE GROUPING, then incentivize grouping. Don't try and force grouping, reward grouping. What if every player you added gave +25% exp to the group?(no splitting. I'm talking 125% per kill as compared to solo) Is that fast? Sure, but its better than giving it away.
    Instead of calculating does this class add any buffs or abilities I need... is the 50% penalty to my exp going to be made up by their dps... is my spawn rate sufficient... do they want the aug I'm after... is it worth the trouble over my merc...
    All of that goes away if each person you add automagically increases your exp per kill (current group exp bonus isn't cutting it AND did you notice how popular original RaF was?).
    What if having 4+ real players in a group doubles the drops from instanced names or makes two chests spawn instead of one?
    What if having more players in group made buffs last longer or stronger or auras increased or added something to leadership style AAs?
    What if it increased plat when sharing(loot multiplier in the formula)? What if more real players gave higher mission currency rewards?
    All of a sudden it becomes attractive to group. Players stop caring if that lower level, undergeared monk is going to hurt them. They'll grab ANYONE who simply advertises they're available.
    Maybe friendships form. Maybe players experience new zones when they go to meet their new group.
    MAYBE, new players are discouraged not because they see a 6k mountain of AA to climb, but because they know all 6k AA are going to be done ALONE, slowly, friendlessly, grinding it out in the one or two zones they know are "good" experience.

    One of us is thinking backwards.
    I'm much happier paying to play my way than being forced to pay to play your way.
    Avaa, Velric, Beldan_VZ and 5 others like this.
  3. Beebles New Member




    .::BONUS POINTS AWARDED!::.

    Thank you for that. Also, thank you for your honest replies, your calm demeanor, and your poise under considerable pressure. I love playing Everquest (for the past...wow I'm old...years...) and one of my favorite things about this platform is the care and attention all of the staff and management give to it. I appreciate you all, and thank you again.

    - Gone, Vox.
    Shimmerleaf likes this.
  4. Enine Journeyman

    My question to soe. Why after 15 years of me playing your great game for xpacs boxs and sc alone i have paid over 15 grand to your company. Question is there are millions who paid the same thing or more why are we forced and punished to play on such outdated servers? Soe has gotten a lot of money from us more then enough to upgrade the servers so this wouldnt even be possible.
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  5. Dimencia Journeyman

    I still simply do not understand the logic here... Above is the problem....
    How does what is below prevent the above?

    I see we are putting forth a LOT of effort to make changes.., But Why?
    The Pulling / Pathing is addressed as the problem, doesn't the restrictions of the change counter the "Why are we making the change now?"

    Remove the ability Globally.... and you WILL CATCH ALL situations...
    If not Raid & 30+ Mobs on Agro
    -apply Vish-Dragon Like DT zone effect...
    -Raid flag would KILL xp
    -if the swarm exploit is tried Kills the puller ending the lag anyway.

    AA / Leveling issues
    1. Cant Catch UP Its not Achievable (perceived)
    2. How Dare You Tell how I Must play the game (perceived)
    3. Nice, slap in face, I spent X years and earned them and you want to give all in 1 sweep

    There was a Suggestion previously by (doh cant find it now), but use the only takes a bit of coding (very little)
    HERO'S JOURNEY Tasks {if Spent AA <= XX} Additional Reward Granted:
    -Glyph of Stored XP-

    This would:
    Restore Need for zones
    Player gets at least SOME sense of Accomplishment
    Player gets to choose how and where
    Player makes full use of the AA xp bonus (and even may store up post 4k)
    Gear is being granted along the way through this...
    Save Coders from having to make major changes
    (have the xp and aa applied too on pre Level 51)
    On hindsight this would also let those Post 4kAA gain additional AA's 3x per glyph isnt much compaired to dailies but its a boost to help returning players catch up.

    Down side...
    Would remove the need to have the instant L85 toons from needed to be available
    Players would have to do specific tasks to obtain this (actually quest again, more than daily tasks)

    What is Wrong with doing as Little change as possible to have the greatest impact?
  6. rune00 Augur

    [NO/NEGATIVE/DONT LIKE/DO NOT AGREE WITH THE SK NERF]

    I just wrote the above to make it easier for you to count my post as someone who doesn't agree.

    Granting AA with an opt out, I'm fine with that.
    Nerfing the sk epic, I HATE THAT.

    Having spent years/tons of money on my Sk, just to see my usefulness in a raid ruined, well that sucks!

    Please let us know how many mobs we can take on before we wont get any riposte heals.
    Mages got 12, do we get 12 as well?

    At least the mages know if they try to kill more than 12, they will die.
    Are we just going to have to experiment with this on patchday? die a few times?
    whups, I pulled 5 mobs, I guess the limit was 4, in another zone I did 8, now its 6, cause these guys hits me faster?

    Cmon... NOT COOL.
  7. Bolin New Member

    Not reading through 117 pages of replies to see if its mentioned or not, but please do not autogrant Mystical Shield or the 5th Tier Dragons of Norrath AA due to the fact it has a chance to stop a couple of berserker self harm abilities from firing properly
  8. Ruvan New Member

    I can live with the odd summons on a HS proc every now and then; will make life more interesting :D
  9. Garshok Augur

    The concern isn't the number of hits we land but the number of ripostes. For normal grouping with 1 or 2 mobs in camp, not an issue. My regular group doesn't have a bard or chanter, however, and sometimes we may get quite a few more mobs in camp. In those cases, there's a lot of beat down going on, and a lot of ripostes - the healing from those ripostes often being what lets the group last to get the mobs controlled with the limited tools that we have.

    Sloppy pulling? Sure. But a) it's fun (brings back the days of hunting gnolls in Naggy's Lair), and b) with Soul Lich the group has the tool to handle an occasional overpull. If the hit limit applies to ripostes, and that limit is set to low, then that grouping tool disappears.

    Lich Sting has been taken into account during shadowknight ability development for the last dozen expansions; SK healing and mitigation capabilities have all been designed with Lich Sting in mind. If Lich Sting (or any other tap) is nerfed too hard, then a batch of changes designed to stop swarming causes a heck of a lot of collateral damage in SK group tanking capability.

    Same for raids, too - we have raids where SKs have to initially offtank/get control of up to a dozen adds until chanters can lock them down. Riposte healing helps makes that happen, and provide whatever safety margin there is.

    Hence the SK concern over the number of hits Lich Sting, etc. will last. We're pretty much of the opinion that nerfing mortal coil hard puts the nail in the coffin for swarm-killing (swarming already being far less worthwhile with the HP inflation that began in UF). Putting hit limits on Lich Sting, BP clicks etc. is unnecessary overkill.

    despite this, SOE wants the added security blanket of putting a hit limit on other SK taps. Got it. We want to make sure that our group and raid tanking functionality does not become collateral damage of the swarming nerf as a result.

    I don't maintain logs to see exactly how many ripostes I have had when using Lich Sting in any of these raiding or 'oh ****' group situations. Others do, though, and are undoubtedly looking at it.
    Leeroy Jenkins, rune00 and dreadlord like this.
  10. Muedaven New Member


    Would a Dev take a chance and address this post please? Nicely written and well thought out.

    I would also like to know where this mythical new player base is? Just waiting out there to play Everquest, but wont or can't because of the very things that make this game more compelling than other MMORPGS. The new player base is in fact the current player base,....it's called ALTS.
  11. kilamanoww New Member

    wow i totally agree with this
    Casia said:
    “There must be some weird reverse image thing that happens from the Dev side of things because all your decisions look like backwards thinking to me.
    #1- Server lag from swarm pulls. Fix: Nerf front end(user/customer end) mechanics to fix back end(server/hardware/code) issues. Backwards thinking.
    You fix back end problems on the back end not take it out on the end user.
    #2- Nerf/betray/hurt current customer base in order to attract some numinous new player base floating out there in the ether that has been holding off for 15 years to give you their money with the next big fix.
    Backwards thinking.
    Customer retention first. Adding new clients second.
    #3-Warping people into endgame content=groups and fun.
    Making mercs undesirable. Creating special difficult mechanics that require certain classes. Anything that FORCES players to group in order to artificially create groups.
    Backwards thinking. You can't force grouping. People will play their way or they will leave.
    Scenario: Heroic Character to 85. All relevant AAs. Player asks what now? Gets sent to CotF and new 85 HAs because that's where people are and they can get currency while leveling. They do PuGs. Buy their gear. Finish leveling AAing. Done. Their experience of the vast depth and breadth of EQ is the 3-4 easiest HAs from CotF. They still have no friends. They still rely on the mercy of PuGs that probably don't need them in the first place. Levels and AAs don't fix that.
    If you don't believe me try being a well geared,well AA'd, high level, grouping rogue and try and get a group.
    #4-Getting to the end game with no sense of accomplishment, growth, exploration, or tribulation=achieving the goal and appeal of EQ.
    Backward thinking. It just is.

    IF YOU REALLY WANT TO PROMOTE GROUPING, then incentivize grouping. Don't try and force grouping, reward grouping. What if every player you added gave +25% exp to the group?(no splitting. I'm talking 125% per kill as compared to solo) Is that fast? Sure, but its better than giving it away.
    Instead of calculating does this class add any buffs or abilities I need... is the 50% penalty to my exp going to be made up by their dps... is my spawn rate sufficient... do they want the aug I'm after... is it worth the trouble over my merc...
    All of that goes away if each person you add automagically increases your exp per kill (current group exp bonus isn't cutting it AND did you notice how popular original RaF was?).
    What if having 4+ real players in a group doubles the drops from instanced names or makes two chests spawn instead of one?
    What if having more players in group made buffs last longer or stronger or auras increased or added something to leadership style AAs?
    What if it increased plat when sharing(loot multiplier in the formula)? What if more real players gave higher mission currency rewards?
    All of a sudden it becomes attractive to group. Players stop caring if that lower level, undergeared monk is going to hurt them. They'll grab ANYONE who simply advertises they're available.
    Maybe friendships form. Maybe players experience new zones when they go to meet their new group.
    MAYBE, new players are discouraged not because they see a 6k mountain of AA to climb, but because they know all 6k AA are going to be done ALONE, slowly, friendlessly, grinding it out in the one or two zones they know are "good" experience.

    One of us is thinking backwards.
    I'm much happier paying to play my way than being forced to pay to play your way.”

    Would a Dev take a chance and address this post please? Nicely written and well thought out.

    I would also like to know where this mythical new player base is? Just waiting out there to play Everquest, but wont or can't because of the very things that make this game more compelling than other MMORPGS. The new player base is in fact the current player base,....it's called ALTS.

    i could live with this instead of free aa grant
    heck i would drop mercs just to add real players in my group :)
    rune00, Elendieal, Avaa and 3 others like this.
  12. Garshok Augur

    You are ignoring ripostes from multiple mobs.

    You can have a metric buttload of mobs beating on you in a raid or in 'oh ****' grouping situations which are not swarming. Not by a long shot. The hit limits need to be enough for the clicky to last through those sorts of situations.

    [Even when I was at my best for swarming, I never killed a swarm in less than five minutes, using every disc/clicky I had and ideal cornering, etc. Just nerfing the heck out of Mortal Coil kills swarming.]
    Leeroy Jenkins and rune00 like this.
  13. redstingray New Member

    New guy gets his heroic lvl 85 character, pushes his gimme button for his 4k AA points. Now what? Just entered a world with a hundred spells and hotbuttons and has no idea what any of it does. Beyond the AA curve so gaining them is much slower, higher lvl so gaining exp will seem very slow and in the lvl range where trash can one round you. Add to that the fact his free super noob character means nothing to him. Think you gained a long term paying customer?
    Now for the casual long term gold customers (like me). I can opt out of the free AA thing I guess and go gain them myself, that would make me a moron though, they are free so gaining them means nothing anymore except that maybe I place so little value on my life i'm willing to spend a bunch of time in an old game working on something that I can just push a button and be done with. Then if I take the 4k AA points I could keep working on my character at my slow casual pace right? Sure could, but that would make me a moron, I would get my years AA points earned just about in time for them to become free again. Same with leveling, I could do that for a bit then next year they would just add five lvls to the heroic characters.
    We play EQ because it is EQ, the mountain is EQ. Many leave and come back because this is not a shallow hand holding game, because the are nearly endless ways to build your character. Many may not feel this way but many do.
    With how huge and game changing these changes are and how much these changes really do devalue the time (years) players like me have invested in our characters I would think they would warrant new ruleset servers and let us keep the EQ we know and love.
    Leeroy Jenkins, Abrax, Velric and 2 others like this.
  14. Tual Augur

    No, not everyone gains from auto-granting leader AA's, with my play style it has zero impact. A group toon gets zero benefit from raid leader AA's, max group leader AA toons like mine get no benefit from the auto-grant, and yet I seem to be ok with it. I'm also ok with the auto-granting of AA even though my out of my 3 main toons 2 of them are max AA'd glyph burners... it's the flipping hypocrisy that irritates the hell out of me, "I want that so I'll stay silent, but I don't want someone else getting something, so I'll cry because it's not FAAAIIRR!!!"
  15. Cisco Elder

    Thinking the hit counters on BP clickies for the SK nerf is bit excessive.
  16. Houpahi New Member

    Have played EQ since '99, have seen a lot of nerfs since, we'll have to deal with them. But basically, you are nerfing classes that multiple kill. But it has taken me years of actually playing my toons to get the AA's that you will now just give away to gold members. It's a slap in the face to those who have put in time and effort to get them the regular way. I like the ability to do them in instances...so that regular players are not affected by anyone swarming and taking up whole zones. If anything, stop the businesses that make money to level toons for pay. There are legit members out there with multiple accounts, and they want to power up their own.

    There are many returning players to EQ, and on my server, I have 1643 members in my guild atm, we help the new guys. I think the Hot Zone tasks are a great way for them to get AA's. Probably make them more than 2 hot zones so they can do 2 of each level. But really just giving it to them, doesn't require any playing at all. They don't even know what the AA's do for their classes. We need guys who learn how to play them.

    I see guys making new toons now, so they can also get 4k AA, and then go out and decap, assassinate, headshot faster once they get power leveled to that level. I mean really, it took be a long time to get to that point with my zerker who I hardly play, and she's still at 2400 AA...thanks for the extra 1600 I won't need to play to get them.

    Kind of makes mercenary, partisan tasks AA rewards kind of pointless too, as well as the collection AA rewards. When my level 100's are already maxed in regular XP, AA's should be so easy to finish up now, i can max them all out.
  17. Cronos Journeyman

    I think every idea mentioned here is great, really wish the dev's would look at it as well, then I wouldn't quit due to this bogus update.

    Exactly as mentioned is true, people will come in, maybe try a bit of leveling, then pay for 85 and get all their free aa's. MAYBE reach level 90, find the exp is too slow, and quit the game forever. You made 25-60$ off them, and probably caused another 5 loyal players to quit in that time due to the update. Your just making your tombstone right now, you'll be chiseling Everquest into it 3 months after the update is released.
    Zurd and Velric like this.
  18. Rioe New Member

    You nailed it! Even people who might want to try playing because their friends do, still find themselves trying to play catch-up when their friends aren't available to help them out. It's absolutely not about how big the mountain has become over fifteen years, it's how much of the climb is going to be a chore instead of fun. There have to be ways of making the climb fun the whole way rather than just starting new players halfway up.
    Zurd likes this.
  19. Dabrixmgp Augur

    so if they are getting rid of high level powerleveling via swarming, HS, decap, beaming does that mean they will be adding a way to easily find groups? I mean I can log onto my mage or ranger and PL my alts all day long even if its 4am. But since I wont be allowed to do that anymore I assume they will be adding a way to get guaranteed groups no matter what time of day it is. Its only fair. If they want people to group instead of get power leveld they should add something to make finding groups a lot easier. Something like group finders in other games like WoW or Rift.

    Not all people are in large guilds with many people to group with, play on highly populated servers, or even during prime time.
    rune00 likes this.
  20. Soulrheever Journeyman

    This is exactly right, the currently proposed hit limits are far too low. For example, I was in a group doing one of your LOVELY (and by which I mean tedious and boring) Heroic Adventures in Neriak 4th Gate. A pull went sour due to bad pathing, mob density, terrain, etc. We wound up with 8 mobs converging on our heads with no CC. So I pop Epic + VoD + Defensive, spam AE aggro, and we manage to burn them all down before we all die. During this time period, I dished out approximately 1,500 hits, mostly through riposte, and all with Lich Sting running. Had this happened under the proposed hit limits, we all would have died.

    ... the moral of the story being that the proposed hit limits are about HALF of what they really should be in order to prevent the nerf from seriously impacting the group and raid environment, while still being more than capable of utterly eliminating the possibility of swarming. This goes for MC as well as Lich Sting.
    rune00, Garshok and dreadlord like this.