Changes with the February Update: Developer Updates

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Prathun, Feb 5, 2014.

  1. Eagleclaww Journeyman

    You really think anybody is going to grind to level 85 and not turn on auto granted AA's? Besides, even without the AA bonus of having less than 4k aa, it'll boil down to a handful of must have AA's that you'll want to work on after level 85. Plus if your grinding out specific lines, you'll have to do each line you REALLY want from scratch, which can be a considerable investment, like CS/CA and stuff like Armor of Wisdom and more hitpoints, hitpoint and mana/endurance regen. How many players will rather choose to grind out those lines first, then click the "auto granted AA" button after that?

    Seriously, does anybody expect players to NOT turn on autogranted AA;'s, just so they can what.. grind out a few specific lines a tad faster, since they didn't do any AA grinding until they hit level 100?

    Be real people.

    Perfect example is tanks. Now they will be able to tank better than mercs till level 85 at least, then not have to grind out AA's pre-85. That is, Armor of Wisdom will have way less levels remaining to grind out to level 100.

    Another reason to celebrate getting auto aa's is that the more casual players can focus on the lines they need the most post 85, and when the next expansion comes out, the next level of auto-granted AA;s will be released.. thereby filling up to level 90 all those AA;s you really didn't want to grind out anyway.
    Lastly... making alts won't be a massive undertaking anymore. Kinda hard to really want to play an alt when you have to grind out thousands of AA;s just to compete.
  2. Quilix Elder

    Sorry forgot to add earlier - just so you understand my playing style (it was specified in previous post but I do realize this thread is very long)

    I for one have NO desire to be in the "End game bunch" who have "Grown up" - especially now that there is going to be the option to buy an almost "Grown Up" char for cash.

    Would however also like more information about these "Helbots" you mentioned - they sound uber powerful, but you are totally correct I have not heard about them before - guessing that they are new feature? - Are they a Wizard class type helper?. Are they available at every level ? or do you need to "Grow up" to get one of those as well ?

    Kind Regards (Bowing as always to your lvl 100 knowledge & greatness)

  3. Axxius Augur

    1. People whose AA numbers will suddenly drop will not be happy.
    2. Information on various community sites people use all the time will become inaccurate.
    3. Reviewing the costs of hundreds of AA every year will be a huge amount of work for the AA dev.
    My idea with 'cashbacks' will achieve the same result without all these issues.
  4. Khaibasis Journeyman

    Great job, Developers!

    I was happy with the initial changes. This is even better!
  5. Kolani Augur

    In a complete vacuum that might happen like you're describing. However, a lot of those AAs that you're burning to be able to get the 1000 aa on that 92/0 are going to include a ton of pre-Underfoot AA that the 92/0 just won't get when they claim. Remember, no matter how hard you and others are trying to obfuscate the point, it's not an instagrant of 4000 aa to spend how you want, it's an instagrant of all AA up to the Underfoot rank. I bet you're not buying Innate Enlightenment on that 92/0. Guess what? He's getting them anyway. I bet you also didn't get it on the 92/4000. He's going to benefit too, he'll get them the same as the 92/0. My 100/5000 shaman is going to get about 1000 aa out of it by my math.
    Rezzurrektin likes this.
  6. Cinnwinea New Member

    Cleric changes are a fairly reasonable compromise although I think the proc numbers are still low for raid use. My one remaining concern is that clerics MUST know when the heal/stun procs are exhausted in order to refresh the spell. This is critical to raid and normal group functionality.

    While I am not "happy" with how the changes affect my ability to farm tradeskill items in SOF zones, I am pleased that my ability to kill multiple mobs per pull is not completely destroyed. I can adjust to smaller pulls.

    I would like to say that I always tried to be a "responsible" swarmer. I never swarmed in hot zones. I usually tried to swarm at hours when I was probably the only player in my chosen zone. I frequently swarmed in Mech Guardian where there was no possibility of bothering other players. I would have kept my pulls smaller if I had known swarming impacted server performance. I have loved EQ for 10 years, and would never knowingly do anything detrimental to the game or community. You could have asked me to change my methods!
    Quontrol likes this.
  7. Brutus Journeyman

    IMO, their market research says selling upper level toons will bring in the most revenue. IMO, they researched web based sales of toons : aka "auction toons" as an example; and know the price range where the sales would be successful. Now how do they introduce these for in-house sale toons into the eq marketplace? IMO, market research has told them, that these in-house toons need to be "on the ground running" In order for that, they need a high enough level with AAs and some equipment. IMO, I believe there is a lucrative market here. Also, IMO, they have to first set up a massive AA grant to existing players. IMO, when the in-house sale toons come on sale, it would not be so disruptive because existing players will have the same AA that was granted earlier. IMO, the worry about silver getting a one month gold membership then flipping back to silver may happen ( imo creating just a small increase in revenue, but the big prize, imo, is the revenue for the sale of these in-house toons).

    IMO, I think this is a good business decision. The business cuts down on the third party sale of toons that sometimes ties up their customer service (which cost money from a product someone else is profiting from.) And besides bought toons have been with us for a long time, thus time it isjust in-house and sanctioned. This may be what EQ needs to survive for more years to come. If I was a new player I would seriously look at buying one or more of these toons. As what cost? $200 to $500 sure. IMO, the cost/time reward is well worth that. And I have 15 more levels and another 4k to 5k of AA to develop my toon(s). Again, IMO, a brilliant business decision. I, myself, am waiting for the day , an in-house merc is available with AA. If one does come available soon, my sc will have a debut.
    Fenthen and dreama121 like this.
  8. Gutzz Journeyman

    The raiding system I'm with the bare minimums are:
    CoTF - Level 100, 2K+ AA,s and a hp check bare minimum is 65K for silk class unbuffed.
    We do end game raids and will sit people for instances that they plain won't survive in.
    Yes, a lot of our core raiders carry the new guys, but we still win.

    One of our previous raiders said: that raiding is a two way street. We as a raid force make an investment into you, you in turn should make an investment to the team you want to raid with. MAKE the investment in your gear before showing up to raids.

    There are other raid systems on our server that are hitting lesser content (saw an ooc for HoT raids) and I doubt their requirements are level 100. Maybe Tunare server is just special that we will work with people to get where they need to be. I personally hope that we're not the exception to the rule.
  9. Geroblue Augur

    Except, many of us don't care that other players have more AA and levels than our characters do. So there is no divide.

    I care about AAs in that they help my character survive, but if someone has over a 1000 AAs than I do, not a big deal.
  10. Broadhead New Member

    Hej! I was just wondering about part of the text of the email that brought me here, because I can't find a reference to it anywhere:

    "In an effort to improve the playability of EverQuest for all players, the abilities formerly granted via leadership experience have been changed into general UI enhancements for ALL players."

    I haven't played for a while, so I'm a little unfamiliar with the latest systems - but does this mean there will some kind of UI revamp? :)
  11. strongbus Augur

    they are going give all leadership aa as standard stuff now but its still in testing and not yet in game.
  12. kilamanoww New Member

    i play a rng clr sk ench and anytime there is a nerf i have never complained you all have never seen me on these boards and i have been playing since 99
    just be fair to everyone if you are gonna grant someone 4-7k aa's just for joining and paying you 15$
    why not give the person who is loyal and have spent thousands of dollars and help keep you all employed and keep eq going for so long the same thing 4-7k aa's to
    do you really think the peeps who was given given everything for free is gonna really stick around for the long haul?
    us veterans have proven we will
    dont treat us better than newbies treat us atleast just as good
    if you give em 4-7k aa's give it to us to :)
  13. Khaine New Member

    Greetings Norrath.

    I find myself in an odd position of posting for the first time on these forums, despite being an EQ player since 1999. I don't mention the date out of an 'elitist' position, before I'm similarly vilified for having the temerity to mention it, as others further down the thread have been. I cite it simply to highlight that I've walked for a while in Norrath long enough to feel a certain affection for it.

    The impending changes are worrying, but some of the reasoning behind them is more worrying.

    I've seen several times in this thread that levelling is a mountain, that's it's psychologically daunting, or that's it's an unnecessary hurdle that prevents players from enjoying the game. If anyone doesn't see an inherent logical paradox there, then I'm disappointed. Levelling is a huge part of the game. Amputating it, even if it's just for paying customers, reduces EQ to a shadow of its intended self. What you're calling a 'mountain' is also known as 'playing EQ'.

    Will the ability to buy an "I Win" button really make this game more attractive in either the short or long term? Or, will it simply reduce the allure that it still has for a player-base that has aged with the game?
    EQ has survived, not because it was an instant gratification game that pandered to the "I want" masses, but because it had content, longevity, abilities and items that were not offered up on an easy to reach platter, but required some thought, some tenacity, and sometimes teamwork.

    I wouldn't suggest for a moment that the unnecessary time-sinks of the past be reinstated. Hell-levels were bordering on sadistic, but there has to be a happy medium. Simply allowing players to bypass half the game is way, way beyond that point.

    The expression still stands true that the journey is at least as important as the destination. Remove the journey, then what inherent worth does the destination have, other than a quick burst of cash for Sony?

    Is it really the intention to begin that long slide down into closing EQ's doors by amputating more and more pieces of the game that some view as inconvenient until all that's left is a shallow end-game with no intrinsic worth?

    It seems to me there is a very real danger of killing off what has allowed EQ to last this long. That's too bad.
    Melanippe, Velric and dreadlord like this.
  14. Dynn New Member

    1. Why would people care if their AA numbers drop? I am currently sitting at around 4k AA. I would love if that number suddenly dropped to 2500 or so while I retained the same abilities, putting me back in the bonus area. If they wanted to get fancy, they could add achievements with fun rewards and titles for the different amounts of AA that were discounted and "lost" (i.e. 1000 AA = "the Martyr" title).
    2. I don't see how the cost of an AA would matter. The strategy as far as what AA are beneficial and what order to buy them are still relevant. A lot of old guides are out of date anyways.
    3. It wouldn't be "reviewing" the cost every year, it would be backing up 4 expansions and setting the cost of all of those abilities to 1 point. This is also more in line with how MMORPGs age. The older content rewards aren't necessarily free, but become much easier to obtain after awhile.

    Setting all old AA to 1 point knocks down that psychological mountain while still allowing new and returning players a sense of accomplishment and the ability to craft their characters the way they want to. Building out your avatar your way is one of the most important and rewarding aspects of an RPG. It also means you can quickly get the critical AA's for your class without gimping yourself for the 85+ run. Nobody is going to QQ about having to grind out 30 AA to get 30 ranks of Combat Agility, or 20 AA to get 20 ranks of Spell Casting Fury.
    Ratbo Peep likes this.
  15. Kolani Augur

    Like with other people in this thread, I'm not quite sure if you've read everything. They're not planning to remove levelling or make an insta-85 button like some of the folks seem to think. They're cutting down on the AA wall, and I realize that a lot of people like ourselves may not necessarily even realize there's an AA wall. There's a psychological shock to people when they see the AA window when they come back. I've had so many conversations with people who have left and log back in to the effect that they don't know how they can get back up to date and get over that wall. They end up opting to not return, and that's another $15 lost for SOE.
  16. Khaine New Member

    I naturally include AA acquisition as part of levelling. The same actions are required, after all and time reduced for one means more time can be devoted to the other. I came back myself after an extended break, and found a 30 level gap between myself and the end game, along with a multi-thousand AA gap.

    That gap disappeared naturally as I played the game. Frankly put, what you're calling a wall, is actually EQ.

    I agree that this is accountant led. I don't agree that this is necessarily a good thing.
    Abrax, Velric and dreadlord like this.
  17. Gutzz Journeyman

    While Heroic Characters aren't the discussion of this topic, they are linked. Most people can see the AA grant as being related to them.

    I may not be for HCs but accept they will happen at some point. They SHOULD have pre-bought/gifted AA's, thought I'd prefer each class having the core necessary, rather than a blanket UF and under.
    I am not for the AA gift as it's being implemented (many have posted alternatives). It may seem contradictory, but to me it's not.

    That said, new people have much bigger issues that should be addressed. They have to go outside of EQ for maps. They have to go outside of EQ for AA guides. Spell LISTS, OMG, no in-game way to know what spells there are in the game for your class, or where&how to get ALL of them. Casting guides/strategies, again OUTSIDE of EQ. User friendly command list and description. These are solid foundation items that are currently missing in-game, all of which makes it daunting just even to start out.

    (No need to nitpick this though, think the tutorial has a map but I'm not 100% sure. There's some commands explained through the tutorial. Most spells sold in POK ... though that cure spell you need might be sold by a different class's vendor.)
    Velric and dreadlord like this.
  18. Bartlesen Lorekeeper

    Spending a couple hours to raid on my off nights isn't really the same as mindlessly grinding away in one spot by myself for a few hours. I have redtube for that. I'd rather work on old progression for fun stuff and occasionally help out lower levels if they need it instead of riding the lizard train to 14k AA town.
  19. Kogon Apprentice

    I disagree, but understand that my personal opinion cannot be the basis for the decisions that you need to make to both make EQ profitable for SOE and to make it a viable game for the future. Just like other people have posted, I have had more time to think about these changes since this announcement and have come to terms with what you are trying to accomplish. I understand that AAs have gotten out of control. When they first came out *Velious I recall?*, there were a couple hundred or so? It was a neat idea, and helped keep us interested in a character that we would cap out a few weeks into an expansions launch. With 12k-15k or whatever the number is AAs that have not only appeared over time, but have accelerated in appearance, the psychological toll is beginning to show. It's easy for me to shout, "Don't touch my AAs!", but when in 10 years we have 60k-70k AAs, the problem will just keep presenting itself more. I just think that the concept of auto-granting AAs does not solve this problem. What will the future be like? When we hit 30 expansions and I have 50,000 AAs to choose from, will you be auto-granting 46,000 of them? The numbers just keep growing.

    One of the things that I always liked *even at the times that it annoyed me* was the decision to not implement experience into the game as an absolute figure. Yes, it's kinda annoying sometimes to not know EXACTLY how much I need to do to get something, but the same kind of acceleration would have been too much today. For example, if it took the hypothetical amount of 100xp to level from level 1 to level 2, we might have had a number of 45,000,000 to reach level 50. That wouldn't have been too bad at the game launch in 1999, and would have been a nice way to guage things instead of the yellow bar. But the number now would have been so massive, it wouldn't even fit onto the screen. It would be like trying to read pi *lol*.

    I feel that the AA program as we know it is beginning to become the same thing. I think this is the same problem that you guys are seeing, but are not solving the underlying issue. The solution you're giving feels equivalent to me complaining that there's too many spells in my spellbook and I'm having trouble organizing them, so you decide to just give me all of my spells preorganized. Some players would be happy as can be, but those of us to earned our spells through purchase or drops would be pissed! Instead, you came up with the wonderful right click spell system. It solved the problem by revamping the core problem, not handing out stuff.

    I suggest that instead of having a page that lists the thousands of AAs that I have spent and long lists of AAs, go to a talent tree *or something in that nature* instead. List abilities by expansions, with either an option to:

    a.) Convert part of your experience to purchase it *the current system*, or
    b.) Complete a quest to acquire the ability.

    With the few AAs that are rewarded by questing *a few DoN ones come to mind*, I think that the scripts have already been written. This would also allow players the option of doing the fast 1 time task to acquire it or the slow mainstream method, much like the raid vendors in the last few zones allow you to either get raid drops or convert currency to acquire them. I guess it's even like the way people can do the pre-quests for later epics without doing the original epic if they choose. The point is, the exponentially increasing number on the AA window will disappear, and it will give you more flexibility in the future to make adjustments to scale progression. You could eventually combine abilities into single quests to cut back the number of quests you need to do to obtain those abilities. As other people have suggested, these quests could be added to the Hero's Journey. Being a Talent Tree, the current system of pre-requisites would even still be intact. Just connect one ability to the next with an arrow.

    I have other ideas, but feel like I've written enough. Even if the current system goes into effect with the next patch, please consider this idea for the future. While this patch will help new players at the expense of alienating some of your longtime players, it's only half of the problem.
  20. Zurd Lorekeeper

    I respect everyone has strong feelings about change but....

    This is a game and it has no actual Finish line....each day you play Is the point...each achievement is done, then moved on past to the next. I think the point of Everquest is that it never ends, and is always changing. I worked hard to earn money when I was 15 to buy a car when I turned 16...I loved my car. It was a great accomplishment for me. But a few years later I sold that car and bought a new one...and I liked the new one the mean time, countless other people had parents buy their cars, or won them on a game show, or who knows what...None of their cars had anything to do with the satisfaction I got from mine (or my efforts). Just sayin.

    The only thing that can invalidate 13 years of play is the belief that you hated all that time you spent.

    I don't agree with all the changes but as a game eq has given me years of enjoyment and that has been the point. So while I get people reacting to change...lets try and keep perspective in it all and realize that even this set of changes is just one in an EVER and ongoing set of changes that alter how we play going forward but don't really have any impact on the fun or friendships we experienced here in the past...unless we're really really dedicated to forgetting them.
    Jaxxon, dreama121 and Morgoth like this.