Changes with the February Update: Alternate Ability Grants for Gold Members and Ability Changes

Not really. Usually if a mage pet is out tanking warriors on a raid it's a healing issue, not a tanking issue. I've been on raids where we used pet tanking. It was a nightmare.
Really???? I have a level 98 warrior with 4400aa, j5 healer merc and I am OUTCLASSED by level 85+ mage pets, 90+ level paladins and shadow knights. It's NOT a healing issue. I may not be raid geared, but there is NO WAY it's just a healing issue. The Warrior class is SO OUTCLASSED by other tanks includeing mage pets it not even fair to compair the two. There is nothing that a warrior class can do other then box multiple characters or group. A warrior CAN put out more damage then a pet, but in terms of survivability EVERY other tank has some way of healing, OTHER than a warrior.

The Warrior class, even those raid geared and with the aa's to back it, have a hard time outside of a group enviroment.

Upset customers do not pay for unpopular games. Just sayin'

While I understand, and agree, that something needs to be done about swarming, I do not agree with disrupting fundamental portions of a class. If the goal is to prevent swarming, why not do a check for X numbers of mobs. If the number is greater than X, then all mobs on the hate list port to spawn point and drop agro, treat it like a modified Highsun mechanic. I really don't see the point in adjusting decapitate and assassinate to a useless ability. I can understand the move to making decapitate humanoid only however. I also do not agree with the adjustments to clerics, I do not see very many clerics griefing zones. Clerics need MORE loving, not less. If Shining Rampart is an issue because of swarming, then address the illness, not the symptom. Don't unnecessarily nerf the spell. I also feel that shadow knights will be damaged severely if the proposed changes go through without any alterations. Many of the abilities that are useful to shadow knights while they swarm are also vital to them in their group and raid roles. In my opinion, you need to remove the capability to swarm without removing those abilities that a class uses to swarm. As I suggested before, incorporating a mob check would remove the capability to swarm without damaging the other associated abilities that make a class functional, fun, and vibrant. Just my 2cp.

The abilities are still kinda useless however at that low of a proc rate. Just keep it the way it is.

As a returning player with 3 gold accounts I need to say I DO NOT want free AA points . The reward of gaining the exp is the work that is put into it . As far as swarm kiting why nerf all the classes . Sony you put these abilities in game for a reason leave them as is . you know the dynamics of a well rounded group and what can be expected from each class . if you want to stop swarm kiting then put a number limit of how many mobs can be pulled after X is pulled they all turn into raid quality mobs and the person dies with zero percent rez for being greedy . punish the player not the class . This will still give the rush of swarm kiting yet being reasonable to other players and your servers

This doesn't make any sense. If the skill is useful only for mass killing at lower levels, and is near useless, how can any change hurt the class big time? It's either very useful and so this will make it less useful and is a big nerf, or it's useless and hence this change won't make much difference.

This is already possible, you need to get them all at once because the moment that you finish one, you can't get another until the timer is over. If you get them all at the same time, you can do as many as you want (I just picked up 5 of them on my bard as a test, because I rarely do dailies because I don't want the extra experience).

A small number of people here spotted whats really happening through the smoke and mirrors.

we are going to nerf all classes ability to PL

We are going to offer level 85 characters with 4-6k AA =IF= you go gold and give us more money

So, Sony wants to stop players earning PP from PL so they can force people to go gold and get that money themselves.

Simple really.

So I get the nerf to swarming/beaming etc... Just limit the number of mobs that can be affected by some spell lines... Cap it at 10 or something but don't just strip classes of the abilities and things they enjoy.

How about just put limits on the number of mobs that will chase a player or can agro a player? Like a player can agro a max of 15 mobs or something reasonable? Then they can't gather those masses of mobs to slaughter but still have their abilities to have some fun with.

Also instead of giving away a ton of AA just increase the rate at which they can be earned. Up the bonuses that are already there so that is easy to earn say the first 5000 aa. Make it possible to earn 100 in a day for all I care...

As for grouping and encouraging grouping, you killed that when you gave us mercs...

I have played a Bard as my main for many years, and I have a very useful ability called Fading Memories that you may have heard of. This ability is useful for a large number of legit tactics, however it can also be used to pull massive trains of mobs and dumping them on unsuspecting players.

This would violate a few of the play nice rules and should earn the offending Bard at least a 3 day vacation from the game. I don't do this. Most Bards don't do this. The reason why we don't is because it is unacceptable behavior. "Dangling the candy" of Fading Memories in front of me didn't cause me to lose all self control, use it to violate the rules, and damage the play of others.

You see I have self control and know right from wrong. Those that don't should be punished. You wouldn't take away everyone's car, because some idiot used one to run someone down.

Anyone who read what Piestro said should be concerned. I have never Swarmed with an SK, or Beamed with a Mage. I do sometimes Headshot (Tosk instances only) with my Ranger, but I never monopolize zones. I am however concerned that an ability I enjoy will get nerfed just because it makes more sense to the Dev team to nerf than punish bad behavior. If my ranger was my main, I would be furious that my class got nerfed, just because SOE likes to do surgery with a meat cleaver.

Dexar.

P.S. I may have a new topic now for episode 3 of EQVoice and finally get off my butt and record it.

This:

And this:

(((((((((((((((((

Hi Piestro.
Have read all of the comments so far, and appreciate that you and the devs are as well in addition to commenting on specific concerns.
Just a suggestion, but as the general consensus here seems to that these are drastic changes being made to some classes, would it not be more prudent to roll these changes out gradually and incrementally?
Where/when is/has the evaluation of the impact of these changes been?
What is the rush to implement all said changes in such a short time frame?

As you have already stated that updates will now come on a weekly and monthly basis, the changes you wish to implement could be more thoroughly evaluated as to the impact on classes in all their roles, soloing, grouping and raiding, as well as the player satisfaction for each of these going forward through feedback and polling. (And yes I do realize you can't please everyone)

If/As the change is deemed necessary, the replacement skills or abilities to bring each of the classes more inline with their intended roles and capabilities could be added seemlessly and could be a positive or at least neutral experience rather than a negative one. It could even be a chance to address and include some of the abilities and spells that are deemed "broken" or not useful.
Just like the class discussions held recently, active players would appreciate the attention given to each class, and might be more understanding.

Thanks for your time.
Jamyx

For me, it doesn't make any difference, I support your point. Both giving me 'essential stuff' and giving me 'everything' for free, take away the major feature of EQ - choice.

Please, make it optional, and / or make it incremental.

A few people have suggested the opt-out thing. In my opinion, it only solves one problem (a lesser problem) of the auto-grant horror: it allows noble and conscientious players to continue to play honorably. Others might well disagree with me; it all depends on where our joy lies. I accept that.
Now, if you grant an opt-out-of-the-autogrant-AA-foolishness option, here's one thing will happen: many great players will accept a temporary inferior skill-set (compared to those who do not take the opt-out) and will be struggling with play-skill to compensate for those abilities while they grind on up as usual. This is, in itself, not so bad (I love a challenge). But consider the other side of the very same coin: many new and/ or terrible players will already have received and kept, for free, the superior abilities good players are still working for. This is... just... shameful. And it makes it trickier to appropriately fill out a group in those medium levels.
But here's the BIG problem that wouldn't be fixed by an opt-out: We EARN our AAs. We work hard for them. When you just give away all that we earned to any Joe Blow that logs onto a gold account, you cheapen everything we worked for. Even if we have an opt-out, the very fact that OTHER people have, for free, what we worked for, continues to cheapen our "blood, sweat, toil and tears." An opt-out cannot erase this. The auto-grant would continue to spit in our faces.
Many other options, fixes, and solutions are being suggested as well. Some are better than others. But I have to say, if the Devs don't find a perfect solution to their (imagined? made-up? fictional?) problem, it's better to change nothing at all than to implement a poorly-thought-out, boneheaded change to something that is treasured JUST THE WAY IT ALREADY IS.

I am very mad about all these changes, except for nerfing mages, cause that's always fun. I think the only way I'd be fine with all the changes...is if you guys would put 40 Slot bags 0.1wt, for free the next 24 hours on the market place...Right now, pls and thnx. The bag situation on my server is lacking, and i don't mean women.:/

I have read through many of these replies. I do believe that many of these replies are from the point of view of one player, and missing the big picture.
Here is what I believe is the real issue, and people need to understand.
Every online game with expansions is a "moving target". With every expansion in EQ, comes an additional 800or-so additional AA's players can grind. The problem is the compounding effect over time.
When EQ came out, a character needed to be level 50 and Zero AA's in order to reach the end game.
With CoTF, a character needs to be level 100, and many classes have over 10,000 possible AA's to grind.

Now the goal of Everquest, in order to make money, and replace players who leave for a variety of reasons (player attrition), EQ most contiuously attract new players. Actually, the goal of everyone of us who loves EQ should have that same goal. I personally do not want my server eventually shut down because of an eroded player base that becomes too small to support the existance of my server.

The problem that many people who replied to this thread have overlooked, is how does EQ attract new players. Now the goal of almost everyone I know who starts playing an online video game is to have at least one character who has reached the end game. I personally have a number of "alts" but I have my main, which is a SK, who hopefully will reach 100 one day.

Since returning, I have played everyday for over a year now. My SK is now 94, and I am very proud of my SK. But I returned with my brother and 2 other friends, all of which (besides myself) have quit playing because the "mountain of AA's and grinding" is now perceived to be too large to overcome.

The problem is to enjoy the game, (and most players who are truly new to the game do not have access to powerleveling), to grind to level 100 and aquire the required number of AA's in order to be useful in the end game is huge investment of time.

For example, if I want to play a fantasy online game. I have a choice between 3 games. Game 1 will take me one month of grinding to reach the end game. Game 2 is brand new, and I can reach the end game in 1 month, and join a newly formed raid guild, and raid and be at the top of my class on my server. Game 3 will take me 6 months, or if I play casually 2 years to aquire the required levels and grind the necesarry AA's to reach the end game.

Now for the real issue many people simply do not understand. Let us fast-forward another 15 years. The cap on EQ is hypothetically level 200 and 30,000 AA's are required to reach the end game.
So, let us go through the same example. Game 1 I can reach the end game in 1 month of grinding. Game 3 will now take me 1 year of intense grinding, or 4 years if I play causally. No one will want to start playing a game that takes that long to reach the end game. So, with player attrition, EQ will die, if no changes are made.

Therefore, developers, please forgive the ignorance of many of these posters, and thank you for your understanding of the long term nature of any online game that continues to raise level and AA caps.

Yes, I understand that these changes may be perceived to be "unfair". But these changes are required if EQ wants to continue to attract new players, and affect the long term viability of this game we all love.

Thank you.

I still wonder, how anyone can be so whiney about 4 K AA, when to be REALLY optimal you still need a ton more anyway.

Not even going to start again about "hard work" used in context to a game in which people had a pretty good time while THEY got those 4 K AA...

Exploitable - check every raid which has this mechanic. Also, totally and fundamentally changes the game for everyone. Game wouldn't look like Everquest any more.

Exploitable. Also, totally and fundamentally changes the game for everyone. Game wouldn't look like Everquest any more.

Both of these changes would affect so much of the game, it wouldn't work properly for years.

Actually, yes, I think that is better, although I do like the auto granting in principle. My SK is at the 85 level but needs a lot more AAs. OK, I am happy to keep grinding, so whichever you do is pretty well all right with me.

Unfortunately we have to sleep sometime. We're back and reading your feedback though.

We haven't announced a date yet. In the month of February.

Changes to class abilities apply across all servers. With some exceptions (Harm Touch being more limited in early xpacs on progression servers as an example).

With these changes we can start upgrading the utility of abilities like this again. So yes, this is on the table.

What's your suggestions? Seriously interested.

We're happy to look at making sure SKs remain viable tanks. Rangers/Zerks/Rogs could see a bonus from this, as altering the proc rate would allow these abilities to start being upgraded once again.

Shining will be modified so the base effect stays even when the procs wear off. We were concerned with this too.

No one will lose any AA.

These changes come directly from the team trying to deal with these issues. Part of announcing this so early was so we can read your feedback.

Work has actually already started on this. We're looking for more ideas and suggestions from the player base.

In our previous polling on this topic an AA grant had about a 2 to 1 advantage.

You'll catch up, it took me about 2 hours this morning to go through a 3rd of it (since I went to sleep last night), including some lengthy replies.

Unfortunately this isn't a complete solution. Even if abilities only affect a lesser number of mobs it can still potentially be a problem because pulling all the mobs helps speed up the process anyways. It's something we've looked into a fair amount.

In general prolonged negative changes make people more unhappy than doing it at one time. They just continually get more and more upset.

When I'm grinding AA, I'm doing so in a very controlled situation that I know I can handle. I'm not stretching my understanding of the class or doing things dangerous, I'm just grinding stuff that's easy and rewarding. It doesn't help me learn my class.

People will still have to play, and level, to gain these aa. They'll still have to learn their class as much as they do now.