Changes with the February Update: Alternate Ability Grants for Gold Members and Ability Changes

I have a level 93 mage and I don't even know what beam kiting is. Nor do I need to. I recently rolled an SK so that I could swarm kite to get AAs for my lower level toons. The SK may be abandoned. My other tank, a level 71 warrior was abandoned long ago. I have been very flexible in my play style. So I will adjust to whatever changes are made. I think the AA thing is okay but I think AAs not costing 20 aa points each would help. Lower the number of aa points it takes to get an AA. Might be worth considering. Piestro keep in mind that the nay sayers and chronic complainers are not representative of the whole population. Most of us loyal EQ players will roll with the punches. Just if you do make a mistake, please be able to say "oops" and reverse it. The huge amount of AAs have made it almost a nightmare to make chars fun to play. The high end zones require realy good AAs and equipment. Daily quests should not be the only way an average player can improve. I don't do them often because it is a boring way to play. That being said, I don't think EQ needs to wield the nerf bat too heavily. Start small. Work up if you need to. Some players complain that they can't kill several dark blue mobs at a time. I remember when dark blues took a group to kill. Different times, different ways to play. This is not the game it was and the changes are mostly good and have kept me playing. Long live EQ! And thanks Piestro for your efforts to improve the game we all love.

People don't you get it? These nerfs are coming to nerf the ability to hit 4k aa Faster than you can just buy a toon with marketplace cash or going gold like in EQ2. Not rocket surgery. It is all about money they don't have enough and want more. Thats why they started selling krono so they could get more for plat transactions and not a 3rd party. Same is the cash with the all of a sudden nerf on every form of pling in game virtually. Nerf the PLing sell characters in Marketplace for x SC and they win.

Decap, if it fires you are tanking, period. That should be penalty enough, don't pull more than you can tank, it does not lead to lag inducing pulls like beam kiting.

Am not an SK, but completely denutting a class is not the answer.

And heck if the servers are lagging because of player play styles, upgrade the servers with the subscription fees we pay? If your computer usage chart illustrates anything, to me it looks like peak playing hours?

Read an interview recently where Smed said he learned from the NGE....apparently not. Auto granting AA's is just a big F U to the people that actually PLAY the game. I'm not talking about the people that have already earned them (though it is to them to) I'm talking about the people that don't care about getting max level as fast as possible.

I have been playing EQ off and on since the beginning and just came back a few months ago and started over. I have zero interest in a game that only wants it's player base to be 85-100. I actually PLAY, explore, and enjoy the main point of an rpg game...improving your character. Let it be optional, like an npc you can go to, and if you decline the free AA's you get your name in gold to signify a REAL PLAYER.

Welcome to the EQ NGE....I hope you enjoy destroying the very soul of your game.

I just wanted to say that I'm glad that SOE is making these changes and I am excited about playing once they go live. The AA change in particular is something I suggested in almost exactly the form described here a few months back. It will be liberating to be able to play alts without feeling the need to spend weeks in the hole, just to use an example, grinding all those AAs while you are in the sweet zone.

My only complaint with regards to that change is that it is restricted to gold members. The AA grind is a major deterrent to new and returning players and the knowledge that they can solve the problem by subscribing to gold is likely to turn away more people than it is likely to cause to subscribe.

Strange it didn't quote the post I wanted, trying again

I couldn't get it to quote (Dea slain by forums I guess) So copy/paste is my friend!

This! This is what I was trying to say (sorry I didn't see this post before I posted)
This option brings new/returning players close enough to that wall without taking away everything to work for.

Please, please seriously consider this Dev team!

Why we gotta bring clerics into this if your eliminating swarming we have nothing to do with it.. shiny is already bad enough having to recast it 3 times in a raid give us a break! clerics cant swarm blues anyways lmao nothing compared to a sk.

Lets give toons aa's they have no clue what they are =O

So, would it maybe be possible then to take off the 1000 AA Cap for silver for players that do not want to receive thousands of free AA's and prefer to just earn them the old fashioned way? its an easy fix and would give the people who wanted to still play and AA the chance to do so

My main is a 100 Mage, I've never did the Mass Beaming I've seen others do, I'll be honest I was wondering how to do it, and probably would have done it to, but for the life of me I could never figure out the knock back effect they had on the beams, I searched all the AA's I looked for missing spells, I looked on many sites for anything that could tell me what I was missing.

But it all makes sense now, it was never a knock back effect at all, it was the mass amounts of mobs lagging the zone confusing the pathing hence causing the server spikes, so yeah sure Nerf the Beams,

But didn't you have this very same issue in the past from Wizards? doing pretty much the same thing and removed the Beam Line from them, just to later on add it to the Mage class, so I ask what part of it did not register to the Devs if it didn't work with wizards, what made you think that it would work with the Mages?

Do all the nerfing you feel you need to, its not like Sony has ever been able to balance out all classes, IMO someone is and well be OP,

You talk about bringing back old players and getting new players, you stopped getting new players ages ago when you stop advertising EQ, and now you say you want us to group up again, you guys brought in the Mercs, that killed grouping over night, I see so many people refusing to group with real Clerics, because they are delusional over the thought that Mercs are better,

Chanter class is almost extinct there are still a few out there (Many Props) to the real chanters (Mains) for sticking it out so long, however with this latest expansion you seem to have found a way to bring the use for Chanters again, some of the missions I've been on would have ended horribly without those mezzes.

Personally the thing that concerns me the most is the AA granting deal, while yes it sounds good to all those at 85 or under, I've even seen a few post where people were over whelmed with there being so many AAs to choose from that they quit the game to go play easier games, you know those that required little to no thinking to play, now you want to give them free AAs? chances are if given the choice of where to place them they will still be in the same boat as before, confused on where to place them, and if you just blast us with no choice AA placement they just auto fill in the Underfoot and lower Expansions, then we have a ton of AAs that are worthless (Differs on Class) in todays EQ, as for those of us that are already 100 and have over 5, 6, 7k + AAs the AA xp is already slow, now with the AA Grant we will have what 2k or so more AAs placed in stuff we would never spend them on till we had nothing else to buy and that would (differ between class I'm sure), but that would just about kill gaining AA xp, kinda like bringing back the hell levels from the early years.

So with that said here is an idea that sounds reasonable to me, Grant the AAs in token form, place them in the claims window let the players choose when to use them and how to spend them, have a separate line of banked AAs, we go about Norrath as we do now grinding out our AAs and spend them as normal and then have a Granted AA banked slot, highlight it to spend from the Granted AAs, this way you are free to make your changes as you see fit, and keep the players somewhat happy with out messing up their character builds, in the end all the AAs will be spent the same, I personally like the idea of being able to play my character they way I want to.

Just my 2 cents

I would like to thank Piestro for taking the time to read most of these posts that people have put on this subject.
I want to point out that people have not even brought up the mage beam pulling. Sounds like to me that instead of completely bashing all the classes that the mage beam pulling should just be nerfed.

IF you think it necessary to touch basis on the other classes, then throw in that Decapitation doesn't work on Ripostes.

As for the other abilities, I think they should be fine as they are in game right now. I have no experience on those abilities.

As for the auto-granting of AAs, I am on the fence. After reading these posts it does make little sense to just hand everybody who gets to whatever level ALL the AAs up to Underfoot. I know you guys have already implemented the AA curve system for AA experience. I think it would be better to raise that cap to about 7000 AAs. That way people will still have to work on them and have the satisfaction of achieving that goal.
You also have the ability to ADD more AAs to achievements in previous expansions. Why not grant AAs to those who take the time to finish out SoD progression, or even lower.

All that should be necessary is just to nerf mage beam pulling at this time and revisit the issue with the other 3 classes in the future. Keep in mind that all the content that Rangers, Rogues, and Berserkers can hit for experience is usually in places that nobody is in at all and the abilities are limited by LEVEL. A couple expansions from now if you do not upgrade those abilities then this would probably all be trivial and useless at the rate this game is going up.

Just adding my 0.2C.

Like many others I would like to choose how the AA's are spent. Give me the choice to ignore unneeded/unwanted AA's.

My choice of game play is to get the desired AA's ASAP. As a result my toons level slowly. Now it feels as though all the time I spent gathering AA's was wasted. At the least, reimburse those AA's.

Our small family guild is in agreement on this one. Giving out free AA points completely takes the fun out of building a quality character. When you lose the sense of reward gained by earning and applying AA points, you completely destroy this game. Why not increase the rate at which players earn AA points? Why not reduce the number of AA points needed to purchase something? When a character reaches 2500 AA or so, they see the rate at which they earn AA points drop dramatically. And the earn rate drops even more at 3000 and 4000 AA points. How about keeping the rate at which AA points are earned consistently high no matter how many AA points you've earned and spent? Your proposed changes tell everyone to run their new toon right up to level 85. If you are going to do that, might as well just promote everyone to level 85 and have new players start at level 85. Then get rid of all that fun content designed for players less than level 85. That would be a shame.

Simply put, this will just about kill my guild, and we are not a raiding guild. We are one that works hard to get what we have and help others (new players and returnees) (re)learn how to play. Being casual players, this AA give-away is a death sentence because the time we have ingame, we try to better our characters. Getting 3000 (for instance) AAs isn't a piece of cake, so if all the sudden everyone is getting "free" AAs that took the rest of us weeks and months... what's the point?

Learning the class, based around what the current abilities are (and have been for quite some time), is what most people do. We've already been thru nerfs up the waa-zoo, and have had players leave because of it. But when you wait SO long to decide what to do and everyone is playing their class "as intended", then all the sudden it changes and everything they knew about certain abilities - which saves groups, many times - you have another group of players throwing their hands up and walking out, or going back to silver, if they want to dink around with the guildmates they've grown to love over the years.

I already have a few looking at this and then looking at other games coming out and questioning their reasons for staying. Many of us stay primarily because of the family we've created. Everyone knows EQ seems to be on borrowed time, even tho you keep talking about future expansions and such. GMs can't seem to do anything about certain situations, even tho there has been a whole group to witness it, and link Zam to tell them how to do what they have ALREADY DONE! (even tho the GMs say it's not in their logs... ??????) Guides are quest bots and can't help like they use to. Seems that some GMs don't even know how to play without Zam to help them. The days of taking pride and being part of the world are gone, and it's a darn shame! And not just in EQ....I'll give you that. Still, it's no excuse!

I think that what some people are saying here is, if you want to shut the servers down, just do it and end the agony! Altho that wouldn't be my choice, it would be better than watching the guild dissolve over things like this. We would have a choice of staying together in another world and time to think about it.

And, a thought about server lag due to swarming and such: There are timers on dead mobs. Why not address this and insta-zap the ones with no loot? They just hit the ground and give up the ghost, so to speak. Give an option to appoint designated looters and have it intsa-loot into their packs and, when full, change role to next looter. They can look into their inventory and see if there is something anyone needs. NO TRADE mobs would stay on the ground until looted.

Norrath has been home since 2000. I hate to see it go, but... we'll see what happens. Good luck, guys

Piestro,

I've read every single post so far. Seems to me, some of the stated issues and anticipated "fixes" would lend themselves perfectly to one of those handy in-game polls you guys used to use. My best guess, based on what I've read so far in these posts, would indicate that a poll of this nature would have results similar to the following:

1. AA Topic - 90% of the player base would want faster AA gain for characters with lower AA levels, but not an outright "gift".

2. Swarm tactics - 95% would say that it should be corrected/limited to reduce zone lag (Mage, SK, Cleric, maybe Bards).

3. HS, Decapitate, Assassinate - 98% would say to leave as is, and perhaps create a new expanded ability for future content with variations to proc rate, dmg, and level of mob. These abilities are not the cause of zone lag.

The key to a good poll is to word it correctly, in an "uncolored" and clear/unambiguous way.

This thread seems like it may be breaking all-time records. It's time to listen to your customers via an official poll.

I read the first 15 pages or so, and noticed a lot of repetition so hoping I have the gist of the responses.

Despite playing a ranger (100/10000+AA) the nerfing of mass kill techniques won't affect me much, as I never went the HS route. If it does help the crazy lag spikes I experience from time to time, that would be nice.

The main argument against the AA grant seems to be that "I earned mine, and granting a bunch of free ones will trivialize my effort" doesn't hold any water for me either.
I don't admire other players because of the vast numbers of AA they have, I admire them because of the skill they play their character, their pleasant demeanor, or the honor of their actions. These have nothing to do with how many AA's their avatar has. I suspect the type of folks that are the "reward me right NOW, or I will quit" don't make up much of my friends list anyway.

If auto-granting level based AA's to new chars actually helps EQ recruit new players, I am all for it. I have to assume that SoE knows the numbers when it comes to old accounts leaving and new ones joining. I refuse to accept that anyone there would purposely create a situation where the profitability of EQ is reduced.
Luithien
Ranger of Tunare / 7th Hammer

Thnx for the headsup SOE.you already ruined this game years ago now your just tryn to kill it.AA was already easy with the ridiculous fast exp introduced awhile back & if swarmming was a real issue then it woulda been addressed years ago.Instead of taking the fun out the game why not use our $$ to improve stability instead of using it on new games aka eqnext.For the 1st time in 12years ill be goggling MMORPG lists to find something new to play.

Why can't people see the obvious exploit potential with these solutions? Or the problems? I'm fighting my 10 mobs, and 5 new mobs path by. So, do 3 mobs not aggro? Or do 3 of the ones I'm killing leave? If I run through a zone with 300 mobs I can now make it to the end with only 12 of them chasing me. That's not even counting the crazy way raid mechanics and any event with more than 12 mobs at once might suddenly break.

I have been quiet for way to long

First I would like to say I think the giving away of aa blows ........unless you plan on refunding 4 k aa for those of us who actually worked for them. This even Steven crap... even out the playing field, it a joke in my opinion . The whole game is based on the MORE you put in the MORE you get out. So fine you want to give some new players a bunch of free aa I want mine back to re spend as I choose. I also hated it when you unlocked zones. I have never been a hard core raider but I got it done.

Second I have never had a problem with server lag or people PLing . I think these Nerfs that have suggested stink... just like I thought they stunk when you did it to rangers a few years ago....... What is test for????... if it makes it to game it should stay . Someone's not doing there job if they didn't foresee these issues. If you want to even call them that.

Third I find it funny that the second all the Pling classes are neutered and you nerf mass killing you offer up free aa on characters.

I play four accounts.... I help returning players all the time with free pling and gear and info. I love helping players and strangers but lately I'm feeling really alienated by a lot of the stuff coming down the pipe.

Who are you trying to benefit with this because you have this core group of players that I don't think is very happy about all this.

I'm really not trying to be rude if it sound that way I'm sorry.... Not Happy

Not that I'm for or against anything, but I have no idea where this comes from. I have played for 14 years and have never seen a poll asking about this sort of thing, nor has any of the friends I play with.

Dunno if it's a very good metric if no one had any idea about a poll on it.

I notice lots of current players responding and thought I would reply as a lapsed player to say that I really like the idea of AAs being auto-granted for core skills. Coming back to the game and seeing the ridiculous AA climb ahead is really off-putting both for reviving old toons and/or creating new ones.

That said, the deathbloom fiasco more or less ensured that it will be a good while until I could contemplate a return so pfftt what do I care.