Changes with the February Update: Alternate Ability Grants for Gold Members and Ability Changes

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Piestro, Feb 4, 2014.

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  1. Quinntor New Member

    I am sure this has been discussed, but I am not going to review all 57 pages of replies to see if it was stated. I understand the nerf on the assassination ability for Rogues, but if you are nerfing the times it procs and it's ability to proc when on repost, which sucks that you are doing, you need to up the damage it strikes for. With as high the HPs have gotten for NPCs, the proc needs to do what it was intended to do, take a NPC out immediately. The only reason it currently works is because when it procs, it drops a NPC because it procs multiple times very quickly. Please, if you are going to nerf it, at least change the damage to truly hit for what it was intended to do.
  2. winona New Member

    Please consider the AA implementation to be on select servers and if applied please open up free character server transfers to gold members for a brief time.
  3. Chiaroc New Member

    Once again, let me emphasize that, if there is a problem with headshot, it is with the use of vinelash cascade, not headshot itself. Eliminate the snare aspect of Vinelash Cascade, and rangers will all of a sudden have a lot more skin in the game with headshot. Or limit the number of mobs it roots at one time, or put a big delay on recasting it.
  4. Eggborn Lorekeeper

    So what is the new SK raid utility since you took the one thing that we had away? Spend years building up spells to make this better and more effective then take it away? lol good thinking

    I mean SK's have changed over the years drastically, but at least when we moved from one ability to another there was something to replace what we used to do. This time, there isn't.

    I really don't want to start over on another class. Give me an ability and utility like yesterday please.

    Are you going to change all of the raid events of the past too? You need to. Oh wait, I remember how to do the Hokey Pokey and Simon Says. That's all they are anyway. Time to take up Everquest Square Dancing and hide in the corner with the casters. Or wait.. more shrouding! Yes.. that's it. bleh. I can do all of the jobs no one wants like organizing tank lists, handling guild drama, main assist, cleaning ogre and troll poop...
  5. gabbyjackson New Member

    So ranger/rogues will get the Spent AAs back for HS and anatomy up to lvl 85, meaning they will have a pool of AAs to spend
  6. Ishtass Augur

    Quickly skimmed this thread so my apologies if I'm repeating someone.

    Overall I want to thank the devs and Piestro in particular for being an awesome sport. You deserve a raise. Never had such a positive admin in my experience, especially when being the punching bag for changes going live from others.

    I see the swarming as being a problem, and I've been in swarm groups admittedly. The exp was phenomenal but it can tax the server if you go overboard. A "polite" swarmer takes smaller groups of mobs before it gets bad. I see the need for this to stop, but obviously we need to make sure we're hitting every facet of fixing it, because there's a lot to consider. AA granting is a measure to make people not need to PL as much, but they still will try to (and honestly, I think we want that to be available in some regard. Vitality and < 4k AA bonus is not enough for those in a hurry - the been there done that crowd).

    My first point I'd like to make, is that these changes don't stop swarming. A lvl 100 can go swarm a lvl 30 zone without taking any damage, and lag it out. Not sure what motive there would be for that, but it's possible (unless I missed something).

    The second point I'd like to make is that the AA catchup is a nice thing to have in place. Our old model was not scaling anymore, even with the hastened exp gain under 4k AA. You also can't change exp rates to gain AA so fast that you can't spend it before you start gaining regular experience (which btw Piestro, your exp will start filling up your regular bar again if you are AA capped, so turning AA slider to 100% does not "turn off" exp). There's been times when I AA'd too much and didn't realize it, until I dinged my alt. So ramping up exp gain to account for more AA available will not scale (it's worse if under 4k and have vitality). Is auto-granting the best solution? I don't know. For box groups this is amazing though because I can swap a class out for a different one pretty fast, as balance changes.

    Another point that is a rare case but a valid one: I have an alt mage that I very much enjoy keeping in old content. What I've done is level up, and at that level I max AA available to me. I do this each time I level up which greatly slows down my content progression, while giving me time to live in that era and a feeling of old school accomplishment. I'm terrified to log that character in now because he'll just immediately max and now I'm back to just grinding levels until I'm 4 expansions behind, which is way ahead of where he is now (lvl 60). I'll be greatly saddened if that changes, but it's an exception and I'll get over it. One suggestion would be an option to get autogranted AA's, with a confirmation window to accept the new AA's.

    And of course, there's the issue of AA that we don't want to buy. Toggling ones on/off would be huge, and I know it's been talked about for ages. It would fix that concern of an auto-granting system.

    TL;DR - Here's the problems and (solutions) in parenth's
    Changes to affect ability to swarm mobs that can kill you
    - Pros:
    -- Should eliminate most swarm options
    - Cons:
    -- People can still swarm, just won't have much motive for it. (Unaddressed)
    -- People can't PL very well anymore and we've got a huge AA gap now. (mostly addressed by Autogrant)

    AA gap is huge. Autogrant system in place.
    - Pros:
    -- Fast catchup, with less need to PL.
    - Cons:
    -- People who already grinded lose out (we have precedence of ignoring this - LAA's)
    -- People getting abilities they don't want (we either remove from the autogrant - lazy answer, or we finally implement the ability to toggle AA's)
    -- Characters that we wanted to level up old school can no longer do so. (ability to disable auto-grant per character, and maybe a confirmation window to get the auto grant).
  7. ragntoh New Member

    I'm late to the party but I'd like to add my, hopefully constructive, criticism. This is also from a purely "casual" point of view. I was like many who currently play are I suspect, an old player who used to raid and all that now returned to the game after many years and just playing casual. The game has certainly changed significantly over the years and I'm sure many, far more loyal than I, long time player have mixed feelings about much of it BUT from my perspective it seems in general things have progressed in a positive direction. I am only around level 80 so excuse me if I lack some secret knowledge of how mechanics change at max level/gear.

    I'm just going to give my opinion on the general climate and not specific servers like test or FV as I know those can be entirely different beasts.

    AA Change:
    I agree completely with the general feel of this thread. Auto-granting all AA's up to current expansion-4 is just a poorly thought out idea for a number of reasons. Yet I also understand the primary goal of allowing those who are returning like myself to actually have reasonable shot at "catching up" to our friends or the general population and participating in this great game and all of the new fantastic content. There needs to be a way to accomplish this. I have a few suggestions:
    -Change the AA xp curve again. This worked fantastically for me as I was able to get around 2k AA+ without much effort and the speed is still quite tolerable. I am "catching up"(as much as my playtime and desires motivate me to do so) at a reasonable rate but it is not overwhelming. I recommend tweaks to the curve that would either extend the number of AA it works for or making the overall bonus greater somehow.
    -This one is slightly more controversial but make achievements/rewards/perks for doing the various solo and group missions/tasks of the many of the new expansions(TSS up?) give AA rewards. This will encourage people to actually do some of the interesting content you created that many of us missed instead of just grinding, help increase the AA count for returning players, and create a slight incentive to do something other than swarm/grind. I have been doing the hero's journey quests since I've come back and it's been pretty fun overall seeing the new zones and exploring all the cool stuff I missed. I wish more people were in these zones.
    -Auto granting AA's can actually be detrimental to the new player. There are so many activated abilities and often the descriptions are vague or not clear that one ability shares a timer or is an upgrade to an old ability. To instantly be rewarded with these only to be forced to navigate the AA window trying to find all your new clickies and understand how and when they can be beneficial is more confusing than slowly(or quickly with above changes) acquiring these and making fun advancement decisions as you progress.
    -Earning is part of the fun. It seems the problem is just the ever-increasing gap between old and new. I saw another recommendation that you could also slightly reduce the costs of AA's from 4+ expansions ago, I somewhat like this idea too.

    Swarming/Beaming/Etc:
    I don't think it's a huge problem in the true sense of the ability and a little PL market even cropped up around it which helps solve the problem listed above. However if it is really a detrimental impact to the server and something that impacts many players I really can't argue with that. I could care less than high levels can mass kill depending on class but it's not fair(even if it is a fault of the code/servers/whatever) to have such a negative impact on the rest of the player base. It won't be a popular change but apparently it must be done.

    Some General Ideas:
    -I'm sure this one will stir up the waters or perhaps just be too difficult BUT it would be nice to see many of the pre-pop raid zones become instanced. I know many players enjoy farming old content due to nostalgia, maybe to get that one item they never acquired, maybe boredom or just plain fun. This stuff, as everyone knows, is perma-camped 24/7/365. Most of these zones are completely outdated now anyway or most/all of the items are no-drop so I'm not sure why they are farmed so frequently and so instantly after re-pop. I really do believe that this change would be good for this returning player-base that you ultimately want to stick around and become either subbed player or SC users that continue to play EQ. There are a few items that retain some market value that are not no drop so I suppose there would be a small negative impact but it would effect such a small minority of people while benefiting a much larger base. I could be wrong but I would be interested to see some stats on how many people go back and farm/kill time with their high level characters. I imagine it's a pretty high number. This would be the same thing for zones like ToV/VT/VP/etc. The only downside I can think of is the market for the dropable items and people just being selfish.
  8. Son of a... Augur

    OMG, I just couldn't stop laughing at this post. You are not seasoned and do tell, in what range of those "15 levels" does one learn the class well? Funny how I just fought two toons to level 95 with 4.7K AA, no PL, no mass pulls...and you're exhausted after getting one to lvl 60 and a whopping 300 AA?

    It is Quite Obvious why you like the idea of free 85 and AA's for all...
  9. Kannsarra New Member

    I understand that you want to encourage new and returning players by granting them aa abilities quickly, and that creating new aa opportunities happens with the expansions. As a long time gold member, I have brought myself to max level/max aa without the use of powerleveling by playing with a group and working to get "collections" from the newer expansions. Effectively, there is nothing more I can earn until the next expansion becomes available. And, even then, because I am selecting glyphs as rewards for newer content completion, and holding back on "collecting" the last item from various sets, I will most likely wind up completing anything possible in the realm of level/aa in a relatively short amount of time. I fully agree with the posters who advocate a grant of a number of aa points to be spent as the player desires, perhaps issuing them at various levels as the player remains in gold status.
    Meanwhile, thank you for continuing to work on keeping the game true to its name---let us all be on an Everquest.
  10. Mintalie Augur

    Server lag is an issue that affects all of us, so thank you for your very carefully thought-out solutions. I am quite pleased and look forward to better play online. :)
    Shimmerleaf likes this.
  11. Rogue Augur

    To the SKs suggesting they remove mortal coil but leave riposting heals from the SK 2.0, get real, everyone knows you'd still be able to swarm with visage + 2.0 only in many areas.
  12. gahlamorf New Member

    All I see from this is that everyone will be almost REQUIRED to start boxing. I dont box my characters, I look for groups and solo where I can. They have already made the warrior class almost extinct. these "nerfs" will push the ranger and sk in that direction as well. As paladins and shadow knights can far outclass the warriors in EVERY aspect in the game. Yes, mages have taken advantage of beams, but the nerfs to rangers, clerics, zerkers, necros, and sk are in my opinion a waste. those classes have to work hard to get to the point that they have those abilities, and are already limited to the level of effictiveness. If Sony really wants to eliminate the "lag" issue, then I agree with some other posters..... instants zones where you can limit the number of people in that area, and leave the "normal" zone for people doing quests, or vice versa. As for the AA's being "granted" Bad idea Sony.
  13. Son of a... Augur

    No, Headshot is the problem. Should have never EVER been implemented into the game. Get rid of it.

    What took SOE this freaking long to get rid of ultra mass killing is so beyond words.
    I think Congress took their queue from SOE.
  14. menown Augur

    "let us all be on an Everquest."

    ... And may the odds be forever in your favor!
  15. Zombiee Journeyman

  16. revolutia New Member

    i put a substantial amount of time and effort perfecting my style of using shining bastion and my ward of indictment well i got a message to sony stop beating on the already dead class already start focusing one that need to looked at
    Roxxanna likes this.
  17. Antimode New Member

    I wish that Everquest would stand out from all the others and say we love our player base and we will do whatever it takes to solve these issues without penalty to the players. I know that you cannot please everyone but those people who are here posting are your lifeblood. You have an excellent player base just in this single thread. I am sure those who are posting are leaders of major raid guilds, casual players, econo-players, altaholics and serious players.

    We all are generally upset with what has transpired here in this thread. Everquest is played by intelligent, hard working and dedicated people. This game is a serious hobby for some of us and a great past time. I know you care about our thoughts or you wouldn't have started this thread in the first place. Please understand that this game has formed memories and relationships above and beyond any other game out there.

    I hope the devs realize the impact of these changes and loss of so many good people not only in this game but for Everquest Next as well. Pushing these changes live is a deal breaker for me and several of my friends. If this goes live I will be unsubscribing completely and close this chapter of my life.

    Thanks for the good times.
    Antimode.
    Roxxanna likes this.
  18. revolutia New Member

    ohhh yeah and as far as granting aa' s let them earn there keep
  19. Halifax New Member

    [QUOTE Ineffable

    My thoughts (if it matters at all)

    About the nerfs:

    1. Mage Beaming : Out of control, you are right. Consider Dannynine's words.
    2. Massive Decapitate / Assasinate : Does not work on even con or higher mobs, I don't understand this change really (server-load notwithstanding, but I would definately attribute spikes to beaming)
    3. Shadowknights : I been trained numerous times by SK's swarming. Yes it causes zonewide lag, yes it affects the gameplay of others who are not involved.
    4. Clerics: Seriously I would leave them alone.
    5. In General: Yes you are penalizing players for being creative. Once the creative and imaginative aspect of a game is gone, you are no longer playing a game: Consider this.

    About Auto-Granting AA's:

    Giving away what was considered to be an achievement for many to acquire on their own is outrageous. This would effectively disenfrachise long term players who spent an innumerable amount of time earning these AA's. The "Economical" analogy I thought was quite sufficient: "Give away a million dollars to every person, and now your dollar now buys nothing", Although in this case - "Give away 4,000 AA's, and now your efficacy and your achievement is now meaningless". This de-values what AA's have become to practically every single Everquest player you still have subscriptions for: a personal sense of achievement and value to their character. You are free to make your own mistakes.

    The Future of Everquest:

    Over the years, It seems to me that there has been a blending of abilities unilaterally to all classes that was meant for singular classes to have. How many classes can feign death now? or can completely drop aggro ? How many classes now can pull mobs for a group without difficulty? How many classes can resurrect now? When did DPS become the all encompassing goal of an EQ player? It seems to me the longer Everquest continues to operate, the more each class is no longer unique anymore. It was the disparity of the classes that made each class worthy of playing. Albeit inadvertently, this "balancing" SoE has been doing over the years has made each class less unique, less intriguing, and more like everyone else who rolled a different class altogether. There is a pervasive feeling in the EQ world that almost everyone feels is absent, but practically no one understands how to describe it: Efficacy.
    Giving away the achievements of others takes away the acomplishment one feels when reflecting on their time spent in Everquest: a good example of this would be flags and keys to zones (and now apparently AA's). The affinity to one's main, is a very personal one (you must understand this), it must be treated with more attention than a numbers game.
    Give power back to each class, allow them to again be the "undisputed" master of what they were meant to do. Empower each class, promote ingenuity, and reinforce their inherent differences and stop restricting what they can be.
    Report
    ][/QUOTE]

    THIS

    Edit: Apparently, I have no idea how to do quotes
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  20. Ankarv Harbinger of Nightmares

    So after catching up on this thread this morning (OMG that's alot of posts).

    ~disclaimer I am a necromancer (former rogue--different server than current and unplayed) so my main is not getting nerfed, I am an unaffected party~

    1. AA Granting: Bad Idea scrap it, it is plenty easy enough to get to moving in this game. And if you just hand someone all the abilities their knowledge and ability to use these correctly will be so low that they will take just as long as gaining the aa one by one and LEARNING as you go what each aa does and how to use said aa. This will result in horrible pug groups and guild recruiting will be very tough to find out how skilled a player is.

    2. Nerfs: Another bad idea, you are going way overboard. Look at starting slow instead of a blanket giant nerf to many classes. The main problem with swarming (as the devs claim) is zone lag. Zone lag is caused by MAGE and SK, with a smaller problem from Rangers due to the ability to pull a massive amounts of mobs lagging zones because of the pathing. You do remember that you tried to fix this before, with adding summoning mobs. This was shot down due to the overwhelming response of hurting too many classes and you come back with this again hurting the wrong people's classes.

    Mage: Nerf their beams as you are and make all beams (classwide) have the same target limit.

    SK: I am not familiar with SK swarming, but the consensus that I gather on this thread is that you are kind of breaking the class with this nerf. I would go back and read the suggestions from the SKs to prevent them from wanting to pull a massive amount of mobs.

    Rangers: Possibly put a target limit on their vinelash. But DON'T MESS WITH HEADSHOT PROC RATE (you already made it less worthwhile. I almost never see Rangers mass headshotting any more so a nerf might not even be necessary)

    Berserker/Rogue: LEAVE ASSASSINATE AND DECAPITATE PROC RATE ALONE. I have almost never seen a Rogue mass kill, but see Zerkers do it often, both classes are using their counterattack abilities to do so. If you must nerf then take away the ability to pull massive amounts of mobs and kill them with a combination of these abilities. Is it possible to remove or limit the procing rate of assassinate and decapitate from the counter attack abilities without removing the ability to assassinate or decapitate on ripostes?

    Rest of the class nerfs: drop them and keep the changes that up the beam limits to match the new nerfed Mages (12 target). Keep some of the increases as necessary.

    Closing:
    NO OTHER CLASSES SWARM!!!! So don't fix what is not broken (you are likely to break the abilities or other abilities in the process *cough* Emergency patch right after changes go live *cough*)

    I would say 99% is Mage, SK and Ranger (listed in order of magnitude of damaging affects)
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