Cazic Thul is requesting a server merge

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Emperior, May 5, 2019.

  1. code-zero Augur

    In the past there's always been one free transfer of characters after the server merges. This means that if people don't want to be merged into your crummy server and they'd rather go to something else that's what they do.

    Guess what the end result of that is?

    So if you all think that Daybreak is obligated to 'fix' the populations then would it be more reasonable for them to shut down all transfers for up to a year (at the least) to make sure that the 'fix' works?
  2. snailish Augur

    Why would someone care if they offered a free window (1 month... 2 weeks...) of free transfers?

    If the vast majority that took this offer weren't already paying to move... you have lost nothing.

    But, if it rekindles interest in even some of them (even if just to pay to move back where they left for free --there is that too) I would guess more $ is to be made. If it means a destination server gets that noticeable population bump & increased buzz... then it is worth losing a few paid transfers during the free window.

    I've paid for a bunch of my own transfers. I'd pay to move naked characters from FV #becausehistory. If they put such a free window up for live servers right now I'm not sure I would even have use for it.

    Doesn't mean the idea couldn't be good for the game.
  3. Belkar_OotS Augur

    If they gave guilds the option to move a whole guild with members just being required to select yes on a in-game poll, I bet it could work.

    Pick the 3 lowest population servers to any of the next 3 up, it would give guilds some options to select a better destination for their needs and not require that everyone flood any 1 server.

    But I don't see them allowing people to buy a bundle like that any time soon.

    However didn't they allow Drachenreiter and Legende Celte to move to AB as a guild? That may have been some special customer service provided.
  4. Tenken Augur

    Every 5 months a person can get a free Transfer Token (monthly free 500 DB) as long as they're a gold member. (just mentioning for people asking for free transfers)
    Picklesworth and Maedhros like this.
  5. Maedhros High King

    Can I please give more than one "like" for this?
  6. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    LOL at anyone who thinks this is really a viable solution for most people... cuz when someone decides to server transfer, they totally want to wait 5 months to do so.
    Barton likes this.
  7. Tenken Augur

    Not a solution just an option for an entire guild to move everyone from one server to the next and since it will be a raiding guild (most if not all members should be gold) so they'll have to hold on for 5 months if nothing improves they can make a guild decision to move everyone to a different server.

    Guild leaders makes a thread on the guild forums telling everyone to bank there monthly DB coins starting next month then by November (just before next expansion) and nothing improves; guild takes a vote on which server to move too and move.

    If it takes another 5 months move to another server (building up while doing so)

    These merger or giving free transfers will probably take longer then 5 months to happen.

    but also!

    I could have thrown the idea out of a guild leader creating a Gofundme and raise enough to move 50-60+ people :)
    Elyssanda likes this.
  8. Aurastrider Augur

    While true this is not a realistic solution for the folks who think a server merger is needed. When you consider multiple alts per account and many players multibox we could be talking 8+ toons per account for someone. At 8 toons that would take roughly 40 months or over 3 years to move all of their toons from one server to another using their monthly DBG cash. If they wanted to pay up front instead of waiting it could cost someone 200 bucks or more per account. For a six boxer that is over a grand just to move servers which is very unrealistic. I imagine most would not need to move this many over but someone potentially could.

    I do think there are more creative measures that could be taken before doing a server merger but the idea that someone will just hold out for 5+ months to move from a server they are unhappy on is probably going to result in one less paying customer and ultimately DBG will lose more money from that individual than they would have gained from a server transfer token. Maybe if they sold an account server transfer token this might help their cause but to move individual toons over one at a time with so many players having multiple alts it probably wont happen for your average player.
  9. Zunnoab Augur

    Merges are only a band-aid on the gaping wound caused by the outrageous raid design the last few years. The low end raid game has virtually been extinguished, and the mid tier isn't far behind. There would be more active raid forces on Luclin-Stromm if not for this insanity. Tuning harsh then dialing it back slightly doesn't work when you've already driven off a huge chunk of the raiders.

    You know how to get people to just outright give up? Provide a hard-coded brick wall it's not even worth trying to continue to surmount once raid turnout takes a hit. Provide design that sees successful forces burning through glyphs, something completely unsustainable for many if not most players. Provide design that requires constant unrelenting twitch reactions or one player can cause a wipe. That is awful design that is becoming the norm with completely ludicrous twenty minute enrage timers. Those didn't exist for most of the raids in the game, and when the raid population is already reeling it's monumentally misguided to make it a standard now. I'm not saying raids should be simple piñatas, but it's really bad right now.

    It's as if the developer team has completely forgotten the lessons learned with Underfoot. I wish I had the Underfoot apology post handy. I've tried to find it a few times and failed. I'm not sure if the archive of those messages is still active. I'll have to look later. The population isn't nearly as large as it was for Gates of Discord or Underfoot anymore, either. The low tier of the raid game has virtually been extinguished, and with TBL the mid tier along with it soon.

    The decision to alter flagging is an amazingly good one. That, and even server merges, are merely a band-aid though. The root cause is the harsh design direction. Let's face the facts, despite Ring of Scale seeing a middle tier that was a complete brick wall to a huge swath of active raid forces to this very day, the development team has only doubled down with more twitchy design, punishing tuning, and outrageous 20 minute enrage timers. It has to stop. I've seen some people say the devs just do not care about the low or mid tier forces being wiped out. I'd like to think there's no way that's true. Some kind of difficulty tier system (and not merely chopping off part of the roster cap) is the only realistic way to mitigate this.

    Despite the tone of my post I try to be pragmatic. My guild merged again now, and I look forward to working together in current content. Is that healthy for Luclin-Stromm though? Heck no, and I worry and hope the rest of the active forces on the server will stay viable. If this design keeps up, the devs will have killed off pretty much half the active raid forces on the server. Mergers won't stop that attrition if it keeps up.
    Metanis and Kiras like this.
  10. momentumAB New Member

    Playing in GMT+9 I appreciate what you're saying more than most, but I wonder how many of us there are left spread across the entire server base, and probably not concentrated in a couple or a few easy candidates for merging, other than those who were already willing to transfer to raid.
  11. Endaar Augur

    How much of this is raid design, and how much is itemization? When you have gear resets every expansion or two, it inevitably obsoletes older raids. So rather than mid-tier guilds doing slightly older raid content but getting gear that is still an upgrade from anything available in the group game, you have mid-tier guilds struggling to do the "entry" tier of current content.

    There is no way we're going to see an expansion with enough raid content to cover all skill levels of guilds, so older raids need to remain relevant to keep the mid-tier viable. I understand the mentality of "I paid for TBL, I should be able to use the content," but let's face facts...going back and tackling content once you have extra levels or gear is something as old to EQ as Kunark. How many more guilds cleared Fear at level 55+, versus the original level 50 cap?

    If it were mine to do, I would aim for current group gear to be equivalent to raid gear from two expansions prior, with the caveat that focuses, procs, etc., would still be better on the older raid gear. Cap focuses on group gear at the current level cap, but have raid focuses be at level cap+5. I don't play a melee but I assume there's some similar degradation mechanic that would be appropriate there as well. This would give mid-tier guilds reasons to raid slightly older content because the gear upgrades would still be better than would otherwise be available in the group game.

    The point is there is no way one single expansion of the size we're getting can provide content for raiders at all levels, so new content needs to be designed in a such a way that it does not obsolete slightly older content. We're currently seeing the opposite of that with GMM, where just a few months after TBL's release, TBL non-viz pieces are far less desirable, particularly given that much of the GMM content is easier than TBL itself. It would have made more sense for GMM group gear to be slightly lower than TBL group gear, at a lower difficulty level.
    Zunnoab and Daedly like this.
  12. momentumAB New Member

    I'm amazed they've managed to it going more than 10 years after first implementing this questionable decision.
  13. Zunnoab Augur

    I understand what you're saying, but if mechanics get super crazy that's beyond just gear level.

    I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to fund content they have no hope of doing though, and I think the RoS/TBL situation is a crisis not seen in years when talking about the sheer extent of the tuning providing thick brick walls. Take a look at the RoS progression charts. The design of that expansion pretty much outright halted progress for all but the strongest guilds. That's not sustainable.

    I absolutely agree in the past when expansions came twice a year active raid guilds were spread across several expansions at a time. Then, mostly due to level increases, the harder content got a bit easier. I don't think it's a coincidence the trifecta of harshest expansions all had no level cap increase. I'm not saying I think they should pile on levels every year and inflate things a ton more, but it's a different era.

    Difficulty levels are a potential solution, but of course they have limited staff. Things like frequency of adds, time to react to emotes/auras, boss hp/how hard they hit etc, could all be adjusted by variables I'd imagine. I'm not sure if such a mechanic exists for spell damage though.

    All that said, and my acknowledging it's a difficult situation, I still think something as ludicrous as a twenty minute enrage timer should be an achievement and absolutely not standard design. The raid game didn't need that junk in the past and it sure doesn't need it now, especially when ludicrously short timers like that are absolute brick walls that mean a raid force has no chance.

    When the threat of a summer lull taking a bit of a raid roster away means most of an expansion becomes literally impossible all because of ridiculous timers like that, that is horrible design. Guilds merging can mitigate that, as can servers. But at some point you just run out of not just skilled players, but players in general.

    That is why I sympathize for other servers feeling that now. I'm very concerned for the health of the Luclin-Stromm server, even if we aren't there yet. Mergers are also preferable because they keep people together. Inactive players logging in and seeing familiar names and guilds is a huge recruitment tool, and I'd even say possibly the best recruitment tool. When people server transfer, they lose those connections of running into names they recognize from the past, even if they never knew them.

    I ramble on too much, but the short of it is I agree mergers are necessary before it's too late, but if design keeps up the way it is, all mergers will do is slow the damage being done for a little while. All good things must come to an end, but hastening it by design like this isn't the right answer.

    Well I think it's more complicated than that. That decision has also made it much smoother integrating returning players back into the game. I think that's better than a daunting several expansion wide gap in gear with which you can't even survive at all in current content.
  14. Zunnoab Augur

    I misspoke about the flag changes being a band-aid. That's actually a very important and welcome change, in my opinion, that will help forces catching up as well as those with larger rosters but less consistent attendance.
  15. momentumAB New Member

    Oh, it's definitely not all bad. Generally I am impressed with the job the devs have done, valid comments about problems in the raid game aside.

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