Casters -vs- Melee/Hybrid/Tank....

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Saer-tse-tao, Feb 20, 2019.

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  1. Ecchicon Elder

    I'm not surprised by the HoHV numbers, but I am surprised to the extent that Gotwar's reasoning has painted him a know-nothing. Nearly every post he has made has included some type of misinformation ranging from dismissive hyperbole to outright falsehood.

    Major props to Ninelder for the effort he made to present and support his thesis.
    Akiron and Ninelder like this.
  2. Ninelder Augur

    Thank you for the compliment, but I think I want to kill you now... My eyes are failing, and even though I have a 48inch monitor; all this white background is murder. It has taken me over two days to do this one thing, as the last spreadsheet I ever touched was Quatro Pro. If it wasn't for this super clerk from my guild helping me out, i might have had an aneurysm trying to put this down in a way that made sense. Then you just snap your fingers...

    A few posts up S33K3R figured out how it was working with synnergy. I only used second spire, cause between that and my clicks I can almost maintain for 10mins, there is a hole in there ~1minute.
    And I knew i could meet your requirement, with just one second spire.
    If you want to see it do more just add any of the raid effects to it. Its multiplicative, the 1300hp heals multiply times the paladin aura times auspice, times synergy. Working together you can produce some explosive results.

    But none of that is actually even necessary with just your bare minimum parse of 200k group heals per minute. That is more than enough reason to put away the nuke stick, and free me up to proc that many more Alliance heals on my raid.
    Tucoh likes this.
  3. Rylak Elder

    Your parse for the healing numbers confirms your point as to what the weapon/Aug choice can deliver, no questions there.

    The thing I question is the necessity to deliver that amount of healing to your group on a raid? You essentially are just trying to play a cleric. Can you post an actual raid parse from an AE heavy event that includes all your healing and nuke info? Total healing means nothing if the bulk portion of it is overhealing as your parse shows. You may be leaving a significant amount of DPS on the table at the expense of delivering unnecessary healing to your group.
    Ambition and Ssdar like this.
  4. Cadira Augur

    I'd argue with all the splashes from alliance, shaman and clerics, most small additional healing procs will never make a difference or will land as OH. As far as your choice to not use a nuke stick I get it. But I'd hope you're still casting some dps spells in between heals? In most cases the clerics can easily heal the tanks without your help (unless you only have like 3 or 4 clerics) where as casting dots and doing 150-200k dps while at the same time keeping your group alive just fine is going to be more productive, whether you have a nuke stick or heal stick equipped.

    Not judging your playstyle I'm just speculating, one of our druids can keep her group alive while putting some dps numbers up that can put some of our dps classes to shame now and then
    Ambition, Ssdar, S33k3r and 2 others like this.
  5. Tucoh Augur

    Just think about how much more prepared you are to create the next spreadsheet next time you want to quantify how much some item contributes to your character :D
    Spellfire and S33k3r like this.
  6. S33k3r Augur

    It's rare that i have to just heal and I would still use Dicho/Remote and keep wrath on a target.

    I find the best combo for my play style is a 1H with Hand of Holy Wrath and a belt with Soothing Boon. When I switched between dps/heals I know that I will get some extra group healing.

    Even in full DPS mode I still see about 80-90k heals a min to my group from just Hand of Holy Wrath procs and there is also the 5k mana returned every min from the Alleviating Burst component.

    I also use Fungusoid Assault a lot, they are so cute and the AE heal is a nice little bonus :)
  7. Cicelee Augur

    Only in the Veterans Lounge can a discussion about casters vs hybrid/tank/melee turn into which one hander a priest class should use. Thanks vets!
    Saer-tse-tao and Benzarden like this.
  8. Rylak Elder

    Good point Cicelee, the OP's point has been lost in the ensuing priest weapon discussion.

    As priests and casters, It seems logical that Heroic Wis/Int should impact our core ability to heal and do damage (Heal Amount, Spell Damage) as Heroic Dex does for melee (proc & crit rate).

    The new luck component may further skew things (I haven't parsed, but I'm guessing melee would see more benefit.)
    Saer-tse-tao likes this.
  9. Brohg Augur

    You would lose that wager.

    I have the specific expectation that druids will 1) if they can, keep their group mates from dying and 2) as they can, debuff all the mobs, while 3) dealing as much damage as their tools allow. First & second are finite, basically binary jobs; they're either done or not done. Third is not only open-ended, the potential is sometimes extreme, and so inattention to it is extremely wasteful

    The "exploit" is real plain: raids don't take damage when the mobs are dead. Druids throwing down 2-300k dps (or more! but not tryin' to expose those that work to stand out, here), instead of just 30 or whatever from 1/minute Dicho, makes a huge difference directly and in guild culture.
    Axel, Kuvani, Ambition and 4 others like this.
  10. Ninelder Augur

    Definition of primary:
    : of first rank, importance, or value : principal

    It's the first thing you list in your expectations... Even you(subconsciously?) understand what primary means. You must be a very bad gambler...
  11. Brohg Augur

    you stopped reading at the number, huh? overhealing with shabby procs from your shabby hammer does not address that task whatsoever
    Warpeace, Ambition and Sancus like this.
  12. Syylke_EMarr Augur

    I feel like his post went over your head while you were finding something to nitpick.

    Healing has a hard limit to how much you can or need to do. Either people are dying or they're not. If people aren't dying, but you're still healing, you're wasting not only your time but the time of the other 53 people in your raid.

    I have no exact knowledge of the contribution of the heal or nuke procs, but if you're just constantly spam healing, you are not getting as much from your class as you could.
    Ambition, Tatanka and Sancus like this.
  13. Ninelder Augur

    Considering two of our debuffs are dots; this happens anyway. Your raids alliance heals do not happen if your druids are only throwing nukes. You are dead right that the skill in the class comes from what we can "get away with."

    The reason I originally brought this up was as a priest weapon, which IMO is most important for druids, since they have the weakest group heal power.

    Whoever is deciding our itemization chose for HoHV to be discontinued. I don't understand why we can't have both. There are a dozen options for every melee class to choose from among weapons(excepting berzerkers,) There are two options for priests and they are both useless in healing strategies concerning Alliance.
  14. Ninelder Augur

    Pot meet kettle.
  15. Brohg Augur

    Alliance procs are maxed out by one and a half clerics, who do not have the alternative of casting spells for hundreds of thousands of damage
    Ambition likes this.
  16. Cadira Augur

    Damn you beat me to it
    Ambition likes this.
  17. Ssdar Augur

    You guys are arguing apples and oranges. Ninelder is in a guild that just recently beat Sathir Line for the first time (Vault win was 7/8/18), grats on the win! There also looks to be a beastlord in the caster group from the data posted, so obviously they're not running with an ideal, balanced raid force. Maybe they do need their druids to be clerics with debuffs and black wolf to beat events due to not having the correct raid setup for endgame events.

    A few points to make about this comment: yes, all guilds need healing, yes druid's primary as in most important role is keeping their group alive, no it should never be their exclusive role unless the guild is severely lacking in clerics and it often won't even be the role they fall into for most of the time during events as there are plenty of times caster groups aren't taking damage assuming that events are being executed correctly and people aren't bombing the raid with failed emotes.

    Endgame raids do require skilled healing. they do not require spam healing. I'm pretty sure that's the point the others have been trying to make throughout this thread.
    Saer-tse-tao, Axel, menown and 2 others like this.
  18. Ambition Apprentice

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