Cases where game masters will not intervene

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Numiko, Mar 5, 2015.

  1. Battleaxe Augur

    Joe either left his computer unattended without locking it or does not use individual accounts/logs in as the admin with no password on his laptop when he boots. In both cases he didn't follow normal computer security and shared his User ID and password just as certain sure as if he had written it down and taped it on the bottom of his keyboard or posted it in a forum. Telling someone they can play your EQ account and giving them the account information is not the only definition of "sharing".

    I hope we understand that you are responsible for your end of account security means that you are responsible. Unuathorized use or use beynd what you are authorized might be a violation of the CF&A Act, but failing to keep your computer and account secure is a "firing" offense.

    Traveling Joe is unlikely to log in from New York at 10AM EST and 6:15AM San Bernadino PST. Nor is he likely to kicl the person logged in at San Bernadino and log the character back in from New York.

    And there are chat logs.

    There have been cases other than Conquest where there's been semi-public dispute. When pressed extra hard SOE has in a couple of cases showed its hand and rather than pursue the matter further the arguer dropped it. I'm not arguing with you and you are entitled to have and express a personal opinion but I'd not want to test your theories.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  2. Dre. Augur

    The white eraser icon on the left of the formatting bar performs the 'remove formatting' function.
  3. Dre. Augur

    This type of behavior goes fairly unpunished at most companies, even despite massive liability. Expecting an end-user of a video game to adhere to even higher standards is totally unreasonable, particularly when EQ admins staff can't control the user environment.
  4. Battleaxe Augur

    That's not been my experience.

    Sharing account information in every company I've been in is an absolute no no. In fact because of such policies as a senior employee/line manager I've had it necessary to [very legally] "hack" the accounts of former employees who did not disclose their info on their way out a dozen times. Fortunately most used trivial or socially obvious passwords. I've never asked for nor kept a User ID and password list.

    In fact I'm pretty sure in many retail settings you insert your cash drawer, log in, and it's on you that no one else accesses that drawer.

    Expecting end users to observe normal computer and account security is not unreasonable. If someone "tapes their user ID and password under their keyboard" they are sharing. EQ is not a it doesn't matter what you do Atari 2600 cartridge game. See the ToS. If they catch you sharing they can terminate the agreement. Past experience seems to indicate that:

    1. It happens
    2. They have on occasion
    3. It stuck
    Dramatime and Corwyhn Lionheart like this.
  5. Battleaxe Augur

    More to the point. If you provide evidence like
    kicking someone off that's in San Bernadino so you can play in New York without changing your password or reporting the incident

    Frodo tells you, "This is Sally. Mike's having me play his toon to PL him.", that seems to be the case and Daybreak finds it in chat

    there isn't a reasonable violation of the ToS defense.

    Were this stuff unenforceable because they can't prove it was you it would not have ever been enforced. I expect at sometime over the years we all have seen toons or accounts be banned.

    Sure, Daybreak isn't banning everyone that fails to meet their their computer and account security responsibilities. But if you share your password with someone, they move your toon to FV sell everything and delete the toon, and in the course of their investigation that comes out ... Or your toon is abusive and swears blue thunder in /general and you expect saying "It was me brudder". will protect you from any consequences you might be disappointed.
    Dramatime likes this.
  6. Angahran Augur

    Maybe we need a new post, 'Cases where game masters WILL intervene' ?? I'm guessing it will be a much shorter thread.
    Harabakc and Aghinem like this.
  7. Iila Augur

    Maybe someone can post that thread once they have a good experience with the new CS.
    Lisandra and Melanippe like this.
  8. Numiko Augur

  9. Battleaxe Augur

    Kinda hard for a cat, young child, or irate other household occupant to crack if you just stepped out of the room for a few minutes. Give a determined person with serious time alone with your machine and of course they can get into it.

    Like I said, if you can know the User ID most of the time the password isn't hard. It can be trivial like 123456 or obvious like UserID: Administrator Password: Admin, or told to someone who might think it's in their interest to share it or use it. In EQ, excluding accounts compromised by hacking Daybreak's servers, I believe most accounts being tampered with is as result of having been shared.
    Numiko likes this.
  10. Kaenneth Augur

    Why would a business use a system where the company administrators can't reset user passwords?
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  11. Battleaxe Augur

    Today no reason - in a business setting. But how many people in a home setting really do a sysadmin job - create accounts, workgroups, file sharing, etc.

    Quite awhile ago - earlier operating systems, custom hardware/OS intended to be secure, early version control, ... And you're assuming trained administrators - often some guy got handed responsibility for it. did startup, shutdown, incremental backups and not much else.

    If SmithJ has 1/3rd of a project under his name in version control and he left, figuring out his password was Winchester or Remington because he's a gun enthusiast was $$$. You may have to examine files he had checked out and was editing before you check them in.

    The point was not a dozen incidents in 40 years. The point was and is unless your password approval process demands strong passwords, a new password every few months, etc. people use guessable passwords and use the same one forever.

    What business would have users post their User ID and passwords where others could use them or have them use trivial or easily figured out passwords? <- more relevant to the discussion. None.
  12. Garshok Augur


    I've got a password on my computer; password got scrambled during some power issues. Was able to delete the password and log straight into my account in about 3 minutes using free software available on a reputable site (i.e., not a hacking site), and then reset to a new password.

    If someone knows enough to execute all of the computer security measures some think it is 'reasonable to expect,' then that person knows enough to do the same thing. While a cat or young child might be challenged, any 'irate other household occupant' with a modicum of tech savvy can do the same thing in five minutes or less to any system not requiring a hardware security token to log in. (And I'm only adding that caveat because I haven't had any reason to look into hardware token security systems).
  13. Sancus Augur


    I did the Mage Epic 2.0 quest on one of my Mages yesterday/this morning, and the final turn in bugged out. Bantil lo'Tuv wouldn't accept the Epic 1.5 + Orb, he just handed it back to me. I petitioned around 1:20 AM, and by 6:30 AM a GM had fixed the flags on the character and I was able to finish the quest. It's an issue with the game rather than me, but they did fix it rather than making me redo the quest.

    I think the deleted characters policy is awful, and many of the other changes were very bad ideas IMO. However, I thought it my be prudent to share my positive experience...
  14. Corwyhn Lionheart Augur

    Ever since they added tokens of reclamation this was the only way they would restore deleted items as far as I know and they would explain that in their response if such a petition was opened. Nephew had it happen to him once.
  15. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    If you said that the item was destroyed or deleted (they equated them to the same thing a lot of the time), then yes the would simply give you a token of reclamation; but if you told them that the item was ate by an NPC or vanished in a situation in which it should not have where camping to character select and back in did not return it to your cursor; then they would retrieve the item. It all depended upon how the petition was worded and if the GM bothered to do any investigation. Now however if the item is ate by an NPC or randomly poofs it sounds like you're SoL.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  16. Battleaxe Augur

    If you allow access to your computer to someone else you just might be held responsible if they conduct a campaign to get you banned, arrested for downloading prohibited data, hacking, etc. No doubt if you presented evidence that you were in Marrakesh when they logged in while sitting in Denver or there was free password resetting software in their account and guessing your EQ password first try was just luck you might get off the hook.

    Still, if someone threatens another with violence in the game (for example) on your computer using your account information from your location banning the account certainly ends that issue from that account. I'm not certain sure Daybreak can't terminate the agreement for less than would get someone convicted of a crime account naughtyness - I imagine they can. I'd hate to be the test case. Much more likely (shared) than not just might be the standard.

    I make sure the cat and small child can't get into mischief. Anyone I "share my toothbrush with" I either trust or I would no longer be vulnerable to them (I surely would use a strong password and not share it and would not leave the room with EQ running without locking the door).

    IF I felt I needed more robust security than keeping my passwords secure and not leaving my computer unattended I'd spring for the $9.99 authenticator AND get a new room mate. If I have security issues from my machine with EQ I have personal security issues in general - my responsibility.
  17. Aghinem Augur

    This has really digressed from the original post. You all need to start a new thread (ie. hack mythbusters )
    Lisandra, Imrahil and Elricvonclief like this.
  18. Triconix Augur

    Seriously. Its like playing a broken record. Same people saying the same thing over and over and over.
    Lisandra and Elricvonclief like this.
  19. Battleaxe Augur

    Nod, like it's far more likely an account was shared than not if it's compromised on the user end.


    If it's "an issue with the game rather than me" Daybreak will likely help unless there's a good reason why they wouldn't.


    Computer and account security is the user's responsibility. Security is enhanced by reducing the number of vulnerabilities and the likelihood of a negative consequence.
  20. Triconix Augur

    Case in point.

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