Can't help but notice

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Critts, Dec 27, 2016.

  1. fransisco Augur



    I agree, unless melee get completely destroyed in the next expansion, there is no way caster will catch up.
  2. Behelit Augur

    good Mages are 2nd or 3rd top sustained based on the event, there's just a LOT of terrible Mages out there. If they're losing to Rangers/Beastlords then they're doing something wrong.
    kizant and Brohg like this.
  3. gotwar Gotcharms

    I'll stand corrected then, ty Behelit. I don't know many Mages or have any baseline to compare them to, so definitely speaking from ignorance.
  4. Sindaiann Augur

    Also have to take into consideration, that of Wizards, Necros and Mages, Mages are the most dependent (ADPS vs no ADPS parse numbers and its difference) class. That said as a result most of the times because of numbers of certain classes or raid makeups, Mages may draw the short end of the stick in ADPS as well.

    Can't overlook this either.
  5. Critts Augur

    I second this, EoK is the first time in two expansions that mages have been able to out sustained wizards.
  6. Critts Augur

    The Deves could mend their evil ways and implement some much needed changes before next launch.
  7. fransisco Augur

    So there are only 2-3 good mages, but every wizard/necro/rogue/berzerker is good since they can destroy mage dps?
    Biased much Behelit?
  8. Critts Augur

    Sustained I'm my opinion is after a burn has been done and before another burn can take place. (I know that is a somewhat crap description) Once another burn can be done sustained can't really be considered sustained.

    People would play Necros because that is their class. Just like Wizard is mine. I think it's the same reason balance is so important to everyone. I started a new Zerker the other day and before I even killed a mob I said screw this im not going to lv one up. No way am I going to abandon more then a Decade of play on my Wizard.

    I like your ideas.
  9. Cicelee Augur

    I cannot help but notice...

    1. Excellent players are doing quite well compared to their fellow brethren.
    2. Crappo players are doing poorly on raids, and it is quite noticeable who is doing poor.
    3. Berserkers are far and away ahead of all other classes on pretty much every raid; their challenge, it seems, is to make sure they stay alive- doing so ensures them of a top spot.

    Outside of #3, the first two are basically Everquest raiding for the past 17 years. Good players are good, and do well; bad players are bad, and do bad.

    I know a magician in a guild with two berserkers. This magician has finished second on Atrebe Vault, and finished third on Vault the only other time they did Vault. There are three other magicians in said guild, and all of them have finished outside the top 10 on the parse (according to magician friend).

    On Droga, this magician has been below the best wizard in his guild every time... and has beaten the other two wizards every time.

    On the basis of this magician I know, what does that say about wizards and magicians in the raid game? Nothing. It says that some players are good, and some are bad.

    I know myself personally, I have finished first on Vault once and the other night finished fifth (with the first four slots taken by berserkers). So while I won't complain if "magicians get much serious and needed love", I will also not complain if we just stay where we are at and I continue to finish ahead of all other DPS classes on a long event besides berserkers. I am far more concerned with "negative changes" to my class than anything...
    Igniz, Sindaiann and Brohg like this.
  10. Cicelee Augur



    I am not getting destroyed by every wizard/necro/rogue on EOK raids. So I guess you can increase that to 3-4 good magicians.

    We also have two magicians who are returning soon from vacations/military duty, who are slightly higher than myself on parses when we raided TBM. So I guess you can increase that to 5-6 good magicians.

    I don't think Behelit is biased. I think he is quite truthful- there are a lot of poor players out there. I grouped with a magician from another guild during this past weekend who noticed how much DPS I was doing, and wanted some advice. I asked what spells he was using, and he told me he would cast in order- Shock of Darksteel, Searing Sands, and Bolt. Which is basically the absolute worst spell weave a magician could use. Yesterday I saw a magician soloing in Frontier Mountains with an air pet, and sighed when she sent her air pet on a named and the air pet got rocked. Before she sent her air pet on I had clicked to see the air pet to see what buffs it had on it... and it did *not* have Burnout on it(?!?).

    So yes, there are a lot of poor players out there. Or rather, a lot of players that just don't know how to play their class. Maybe they are trying their hardest, but making very poor decisions in the first place that prevents them from being as successful as they can be.

    Just because you think magicians are the worst class in Everquest doesn't necessarily mean they are right now...
  11. Cicelee Augur


    I play my class because I have been playing a magician since February 2000. Because I am not naïve enough to realize that every class in this game has its ups and downs. Because I enjoy playing my magician, and am not going to let a Gamparse number dictate to me whether I should be happy or not.

    In fact, I think that is far and away the biggest issue with everything- everyone feels that they are entitled to finish first on a parse. And if they aren't #1, then their class is broken and they need upgrades ASAP in order to be #1. I remember going on a Vox raid a loooooooooooooooong time ago, before Gamparse, and killing Vox. It was such a wonderful achievement for a bunch of people from the Lanys server (none of whom was in Soul Assassins at the time) and kill it. I did not care how much damage I did, or who finished #1... I cared about winning and killing the dragon.

    Over time, Gamparse was introduced and then people started to see numbers. And then jealousy and envy took hold of some, and outcries of "changes" and "OP" became the norm. And now it has reached a point where people look at other classes and want them decreased, instead of looking at themselves and trying to figure out how to increase their production.

    Gamparse is good for two things, and two things only IMHO- first, to compare yourself to how you have done on previous events, to see if you are improving/getting worse/staying the same. It can be used as a learning tool. And secondly, to compare yourself to others in your class- if you are ahead, help your fellow brethren to get better. Share ideas and "secrets". If you are lagging behind, seek out advice. Realize you are not the be all/end all of your class, and strive to get better.

    In the end, you play a class because you enjoy the class. If you care that much about being #1 on a raid with your Gamparse score, then you will forever be unhappy and unsatisfied...
  12. ~Mills~ Augur


    Necros are the most adps dependent caster. They gain the same relative pet stuff that mages do its just their pets hit harder but related to spell boosts necros have the highest base spell damage output. And the bonus provided to dots can critical vs being flat for nukes. Mages need mana from I understand but a lot of that can be handled from paragon or qm.


    .
  13. Sancus Augur

    Mages are in a good place this expansion, and we're certainly doing much better than we were in TBM/post-rain-nerf TDS. Our sustained is definitely among the strongest in the game atm.

    That said, it's true that we are very ADPS dependent, and RoI is not really representative of the ADPS most Mages get. We only run one non-Necro caster group and three Druids, so we have 100% uptime on black wolf. Additionally we have far more uses of Auspice than most guilds/mages get, which is a massive boost to our DPS (though it admittedly boosts others as well). We don't get a bard which would provide a boost, but most guilds don't run enough bards for Mages anyhow.

    Mage DPS is also among the most inconsistent in the game in that it varies significantly event to event. We're very good at straight boss fights like Prince and Queen, but we don't deal well with fast dying adds (even with the /pet swarm changes). There's also a myriad of event mechanics that hurt our DPS, including reflect (Lceanium, Chardok 2), non-aggro mobs (Chardok 3 boss), and AEs and such that kill swarm pets (Droga, Chardok 3). We got lucky in that EoK is full of sustained events that aren't too punishing for us mechanically, but that isn't necessarily the norm.

    I suppose my point is that I'm exceptionally happy that we've gotten our sustained niche back, but I also don't want to see us stagnated or nerfed because we're finally able to perform well on fights that cater to that niche. I also don't think its as black and white as other Mages being bad, though I certainly would agree that there are plenty of bad Mages out there.

    As a side note, I think behelit just called me a good mage? Time to retire.... :p
    Igniz, Behelit and Sindaiann like this.
  14. Cicelee Augur

    I think he was referring to Piemastaj and Strangle...
    Sancus likes this.
  15. Sancus Augur

    I'm going to pretend he was referring to all three of us to avoid bruising my ego too badly...
  16. Piemastaj Augur

    Nonsense, we merely cast mod rods the entire night.

    He must raid with a different guild and is talking about their Magicians.
    Sancus likes this.
  17. Xinj Journeyman

    You mages like to touch each other when everyone is watching dont you? Must be a mage thing =)
  18. Igniz Augur

    We are warm and brotherly, but warm brothers aren't we ...

    (Edit: bent grammar to fit the need of the rhyme, because now is the time to shine!)
  19. kizant Augur

    To get back on topic. Damn you Zerkers!!!!!! :mad:
    Naugrin likes this.