Can We Talk About Tank Mercs?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Frogmancer, Mar 6, 2018.

  1. Daedly Augur

    Personally, I think the thread is underpowered compared to other threads. It only took 4 pages for someone to leave it. Other threads have been able to go 10pages + before someone got that mad....
  2. Fohpo Augur

    Wouldn't that be overpowered, if someone was quitting early?
    Sancus likes this.
  3. Daedly Augur

    That doesn't fit my "increase the power or threads" agenda, so no.
  4. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    So a merc tank can live for 80% against a stunnable mob in skyfire with no special abilities when healed by one real priest. Even with temporary emergency buffs like bear spirit and savage growth the merc spikes 60%+ in some rounds.

    Trying that against a cactus or rhino or sabertooth in Overthere with special attacks wouldn't end well. The tank is spiking hugely due to his very low HP values. Against a named mob, he will get one rounded. Against any mob with an AE or special attack, that ability combined with a Melee round can one-two punch a merc tank very easily.

    I'm not saying a mercenary tank should be able to be on par with a real tank. But they could definitely use more raw HP. Maybe more AC. Definitely more clever AI. A "don't let mobs smack me in the back" or a "don't attack rooted mobs" functionality would be nice. I know you can sort of mana this with toggling passive/assist/aggressive stances but it isn't always user friendly. Especially since you have to physically move to shift them in right quarters and any time you're moving you're not healing, as seen in the above videos there's almost 0 downtime in healing a mercenary.

    But I think it's undeniably a problem when a merc with the best available merc gear has lower HP than a priest with mostly empty Type 5 Augs and only tradeskilled geared.

    Also Mercenary AAs are generated extremely slowly. For someone returning telling them to have full Mercenary AAs in order for their merc to be useful just isn't a feasible response. If they find it unusable for awhile when returning they aren't going to grit their teeth and farm another 500 hours of Mercenary AAs so it can be sort of passable as a meat shield. If you could funnel your own EXP into Mercenary AAs or something to expedite the process of making a tank merc capable of eating rounds, that may help as well.
  5. Cloudia Augur

    I run a boxed crew Druid Shaman Enchanter all on spate boxes so 3 keyboard/mouse/screen setup with chanter and shaman pets loaded with current set of pet toys, and 3 mercs. Tank with druid lead, Cleric on shaman for healing, Caster on chanter for cc/dps.
    For gear druid is in full EoK raid armor (yippee?), chanter and shaman in a mix of mostly TBM raid gear with some group augs for hp/mana, and all spells rk2 (105)

    Caster merc: decent dps buffed up and survives well.Set to balanced rarely does anything really stupid.
    Healer merc: main healing for group supplemented by both druid as primary/ shaman as backup. Set to reactive she does a fairly decent job within her limits.
    Tank: Set aggressive to druid puller. Now this is where I have to keep focused and manage with care, the debuffs and slows have got to get in early and stay on. She has always been a bit on the fragile side as a tank and prone to breaking mez or haring off after more distant mobs on agro list. Since the release of RoS I have noticed she seems to be drinking a lot more and not toughening up nearly as much relative to the rest of my crew.


    I am nowhere near as skilled as nine boxing, having grouped with him on main enough to know.
    Yet prior to RoS release I was able to clear in and hold spider caves in LCEA for extended periods even dealing with a few named spawn.
    Sure it took work and eating a more than a few deaths to figure it out and was nowhere near as efficient as doing it with a live team would have been. But I was able to do it and have fun with the challenge, then once settled in ring in alt mage to assist others with this part of tasks
    After RoS release I nibbled around the edges in OT with my crew but relying on merc tanking just doesn't really cut it there. too many deaths for so little gain with the loss of xp and no cash loots to offset merc costs.
    I can still do EoK stuff with my 110 crew, I just have to be a lot more careful with my management of tank as she is such a fragile flower now, and her increased drinking isn't helping a bit.
    My dps takes time to ramp up being slow but steady, more outlasting a mob than blasting them down.
    I have most of Eok progression done for the boxes, just a couple missions where I am going to have to break them out and play single with a real group to complete. It goes a lot slower than playing with a live group but also a lot less stressful and can pause as needed by RL.
    It can be done if you are patient, it is just a lot slower. Any time I can get a real tank the difference in how fast stuff dies is huge, and since RoS the gap has widened a lot. A player tank is so much more durable I have more time to damage the mob instead of focusing on keeping my tank on her feet and where she is supposed to be for me to hide behind.
    Even if most real tanks have a problem with stopping to rest and recover end BEFORE they go bingo at least most aren't quite as prone to breaking mez or jaunting after parked adds.
  6. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    [Sat Mar 17 14:48:13 2018] A hadal crusader slashes a bobtailed beastlord for 2844 points of damage.
    [Sat Mar 17 14:48:13 2018] A hadal crusader bashes a bobtailed beastlord for 2844 points of damage.
    [Sat Mar 17 14:48:13 2018] A hadal crusader bashes a bobtailed beastlord for 2844 points of damage.
    [Sat Mar 17 14:48:13 2018] A hadal crusader kicks a bobtailed beastlord for 1096 points of damage.
    [Sat Mar 17 14:48:13 2018] A bobtailed beastlord tries to crush a hadal crusader, but a hadal crusader parries!
    [Sat Mar 17 14:48:13 2018] A bobtailed beastlord punches a hadal crusader for 29581 points of damage.
    [Sat Mar 17 14:48:13 2018] A bobtailed beastlord punches a hadal crusader for 39699 points of damage.
    [Sat Mar 17 14:48:13 2018] A bobtailed beastlord kicks a hadal crusader for 5982 points of damage.
    [Sat Mar 17 14:48:15 2018] A bobtailed beastlord crushes a hadal crusader for 38013 points of damage.
    [Sat Mar 17 14:48:15 2018] A bobtailed beastlord crushes a hadal crusader for 19463 points of damage.
    [Sat Mar 17 14:48:15 2018] A bobtailed beastlord punches a hadal crusader for 9344 points of damage.
    [Sat Mar 17 14:48:15 2018] A bobtailed beastlord punches a hadal crusader for 19463 points of damage.
    [Sat Mar 17 14:48:15 2018] A bobtailed beastlord crushes a hadal crusader for 19463 points of damage.
    [Sat Mar 17 14:48:15 2018] A hadal crusader has been slain by a bobtailed beastlord!

    This is the end mob in the 19th Anniversary mission. With Savage Growth and Spirit of the Bear on (additional 30K temporary HP), my mercenary was engage and killed before I could cast druid's only heal they can cast back to back (Curavida) which has a 3.0 second cast time.

    This is the problem with tank mercenaries. The mitigation isn't the worst, but their total HP is absolutely pitiful.
  7. Ninelder Augur

    You actually made it through one of these missions using a tank merc? Thats incredible, many kudos!!!

    Everyone else i know that tried to use a tank merc in these had the mission time out at 6hours due to the constant tank merc and party member death due to being forced to try and use a tank merc.
  8. Wulfhere Augur

    I think part of the problem is that many buffs have no effect on mercs. This weakness has always been felt and became visible in merc's stat panel. I call it a weakness be cause it weakens the power of buffing classes who have mercs in their group instead of players.

    Spell effects I've noticed that do not benefit mercs include:
    • HP regen
    • Mana regen
    • Stamina
  9. ptah Augur

    no one claims mercs are good. But if a support class does focus on them.. they are ok.. sure AA invested.. some 5k gears help a lil.. AI is a bad joke. But really I see merc tanks in Goro and ST.. on trash.. with either a real healer or a proactive support class doing it job.

    Often this is a chanter rune/stun, or a shaman doing more heals/temp buffs than dots, or a bard doing whatever is needed.. I assume a druid could work as well.. and wonder if a bst could control things with a his pet and buff lines.. And of course a real life clr does well..

    I'm sure I forgot someone. but if you use a tank merc.. is support over dps.. and bad rounds do happen.
    I get laughed at all the time.. when I ask if I can merc tank FF.. with on shaman just for fun..never won it yet.. but I like to see what I can do on shaman.
  10. Leigo You come here often?

    Here's a ballpark number for you when I'm boxing my sk:
    Sword and board: 50-65k dps
    2 hander: 100k

    Those are averages over about 2 hours, see my sk's gear and stats in my signature.