Can only DPS at about 40% of normal with new pet aggro changes

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Danille, Jan 29, 2016.

  1. segap Augur


    My group geared warrior can easily tank two mobs using a 2hs/2h proficiency and no defensive discs at all. No activated defensive clicks needed at all while in a dps stance and fighting two mobs. With a shield and the defensive proficiency, I can do 3-4 without a defensive disc. It's just on named or large pulls that I actually feel the need to use the bigger discs. Regardless, I do try to keep up Stout Defense for most trash, but I do get lazy sometimes when camping stuff and it just means an extra heal here or there.

    I've also seen mages already mention things they do like use swarm pets to pull aggro from their pet and take some of the damage. There are also AA pet runes to mitigate damage. So far as I know (and is my case with my mage), mages are using mitigation tools to help their pets tank hard hitters. For multiple pulls, they use swarm pets to off tank adds whereas tanks use ae aggro and a defensive. For big mobs, they use swarm pets to take aggro/hits and runes. Both methods are active defense. Just different.
    Igniz likes this.
  2. Matari Augur

    Can someone honestly answer why pets needed to tank for melee? Please provide data that the majority of people playing pet classes wanted this change and the reason why. Honestly, this idea died two years ago. There hasn't been any straight answer from Daybreak.
  3. Piemastaj Augur

    T
    L
    P

    That is probably the best part about these changes, they are not aimed at live or did not start out to be aimed at live. The big mistake they made was to not understand that Pets got a huge boost in Secrets of Faydwer, which was not merely done to pets from that era and higher it was for all pets. So, they booted up TLP with pets on steroids and made it so everyone and their mother played a Mage because the pets were head and shoulders above anyone else due to the boosts they got.

    You can pretty much thank TLP for any nerfs we got on live since TLP was brought back. Until they figure out how to separate the code from Live and TLP servers it will continue to mess around with Live gameplay.
    Igniz likes this.
  4. Matari Augur

    Except the unhealthy population on TLP is more closely related to harpooning the "whales" then anything else.
  5. Battleaxe Augur

    A few things:
    I. Pets can't tank 6 mobs at once.
    a. So? Neither could my group geared at the time Ranger alt, but he could solo a couple of Gribble HA's. When non-tanks can tank adequately the value of a tank tanking diminishes.

    b. It was SK's and Paladins who were able to swarm tank when that was all the rage, Warriors were pretty bad at it. Warriors are for dangerous mobs.

    c. 6 mobs at once is really only "special" when:
    1, You are still killing trivial mobs for exp. Forgive me, but any that stays at current max and makes any effort hits current max in new content in short order. If they are in a big hurry they "Gribble". If not they enjoy the enormous amount of exp in new content and in it's missions <- not 6 mobs at a time stuff.

    2. You are to adverse to making a good group. You ignore CC and pulling and grouping 2 tanking capable toons.

    3. You don't care that the reason to roll your class in the first place is "going head-to-head with the most dangerous creatures of Norrath", not killing "seven flies with one blow". IF seven flies with one blow is the usual tanking situation in EQ it would be anti-Warrior content.

    II. Like
    a. 10 Wizards clicking Like in a thread urging a thread urging Manaburn to return to lose its restrictions (for example) is not an indicator that this is something that would be fair and balanced.

    b. Despite no one clicking Like when I suggested providing buff and heal potion vendors in PoK, making mounts more readily available, requiring players to do some recent raid accomplishments in addition to the shrouded Vox and Naggy raids to get access to Old Man McKensie's raid items, etc. they were the right things to do (whether devs took into consideration my posts or not).

    III. IMO stances for Warriors were:
    a. Ill advised - the rational attributes of weapon setups themselves coupled with what a Warrior was doing and often mutually exclusive disciplines should determine outcome.

    b. What they did and how best to employ them was not only not intuitively obvious but also inelegant and cluttered.

    I'd suggest that when one uses a pet to tank the natural consequence of keeping a pet alive to tank should seriously impact one's ability to do damage. Further, since Mages (among others) are not tanks this should only be possible for trivial mobs. For non-trivial content pets should only be able to provide temporary protection.

    Pets should not tank in raid or group content - that's the role of tanks. In any event you really wouldn't like stances IMO.
  6. Dre. Augur

    [IMG]
    Reval and Jhenna_BB like this.
  7. Reval Augur

    Sanders' DI is incredible.
    Iila, beryon, Jhenna_BB and 2 others like this.
  8. Silv Augur

    Recruiting Sanders class for TBM raiding guild - multiple spots available.
    Iila likes this.
  9. Zaknaffein Augur

    I enjoy being right all the time.

    Let's not work the problem, let's just whine and argue to retain the over powered status.

    Please carry on, I look forward to the denials of ever being OP and how horrible mages are now and that they should go back to how they use to be.
    Benzarden likes this.
  10. Zaknaffein Augur

    #feelthebern
    Silv likes this.
  11. McDougal Augur

    Warriors have always been EQ's 'Special Snowflakes' From the beginning. Probably the cover art. Just have to deal with it LOL.
  12. Jhenna_BB Proudly Prestigious Pointed Purveyor of Pincusions

    I hope fixing Mages is important to the Devs if this 13 page thread should show them this needs attention. Have Mages been nerfed more than Necro's at this point? I lost score :p
    Mayfaire likes this.
  13. Danille Augur

    The pet tanking and warrior issues were played out in 2014. The developers reviewed everything that was presented to them (both sides of the argument) and also preformed extensive testing on their own.The reverted the changes and rightfully so.

    If you feel like rehashing that topic feel free to, but please have some respect and stop high jacking this thread about the pet aggro changes that took place two weeks ago that prevent mages ability to dps as normal.
    Igniz, Mayfaire and Sancus like this.
  14. RangerGuy Augur


    Except outside of butt hurt warriors no one cares what di rolls are. They are just a single part of some magical formula that determines what dps you or a pet takes. All that matters is if the incoming dps is survivable. For named, multiples or swarm killing tanks have always been superior because they have a brain, have better tools and can adapt. When the tank was lacking a brain, couldn't adapt or didn't use their tools appropriately it was noticeable.

    So like was said back then show your incoming dps on a named while under discs for the 30-120 seconds it lives verse a pet in that 30-120 seconds. Or show your incoming damage verse 6 yellow con mobs while under discs for the 60-180 seconds it takes to get them dead or under control then compare it to pet handling 6 yellow con mobs. Those are real game situations that matter not what some di roll tells you ignoring everything else even though its just a small part.

    Pet aggro on live is jacked and hopefully it doesn't stay that way all in the name of the TLP or because some warriors frame one part of a big picture in a certain way again.
    Igniz likes this.
  15. McDougal Augur

    Shaman slow was probably the biggest class nerf ever. I remember .
  16. Makavien Augur



    Except the only one thats butt hurt here is you .. If you actually read the threads you know the 4 different ones you would see that I am actually in support of and offered actual ideas on how to repair the damage from this nerf and you just came in and focused on a warrior posting in the thread and have not added 1 piece of useful information.

    Even in short parses pets were still taking low di rolls at a much higher % than tanks were defending or avoiding attacks which is why they were adjusted . I am sorry you feel wronged by the developers using data that you don't understand to make informed decisions.

    This recent change had nothing to do with tlp and everything to do with servants able to absorb 90% of melee damage even in the top zones of the newest expansion .

    You can see it clear as day if you take the blinders off your eyes .
    They made them not able to take aggro off the main pet unless the main pet has no chance of ever catching up in aggro generation.
    They have not said opps at all in any thread or pm and admitted to a mistake , and they have not quickly fixed the aggro problem because they are working on a solution to fix the actual problem before making a statement about it with their intentions .
    This was a borderline exploitable scenario caused by a lack of a thought out plan to make pets viable tanks for a group of any class combination.

    A water pet was capable of tanking 6 mobs at the time of the pet mitigation adjustment. They seen this and they made the proper adjustments to put them back as a dps pet and not a tank .

    And lastly any magician could not replace my skill as a tank in a group or raid so , there would be no reason for me to want to nerf their class or hold them from having the dps and pet usefulness that they need .

    The only tanks that a pet can replace by having the ability to out tank can hurt is group geared tanks that are up and coming and will mostly give up before they even get to the point of being a great tank.
    While I am not very supportive of cutting off replacement tanks for people who are retiring it is up to the developers to make this decision not me.

    Also magicians were pretty close to sks at swarm killing with beams and still are pretty good at it so I wouldn't add that in to dilute this conversation anymore than it already is .

    The only thing I can do as a player is give them usable data .

    Danille you are the one that brought it up ?
  17. Matari Augur

    We don't need a fix - just revert it back to the way it was prior to December. If that's not possible, update something else besides our pet.
    Danille likes this.
  18. Triconix Augur

    I know this is late but I agree with Cloud because I'm looking at last night's Damsel parse and all 4 wizards were in the top 6 on our parse. 3 in the top 4 (third place was a necro). Our top 3 - all casters - did 5k to 10k or more dps than the top person in that parse.

    Not a single mage made top 10.
    Iila and Danille like this.
  19. Sostenes Augur

    Agree with Matari
    Danille likes this.
  20. Dre. Augur

    The middle situation was not ideal either. My experience was that pet owners couldn't be bothered to keep Calm Demeanor up in a group environment and servants used for DPSing would pull agro from the tanks as well.

    Admittedly this was compounded for me by Phantom Aggressor pet behavior being changed as a result of pet aggro changes (still not addressed) but we need a better solution than re-breaking group dynamics "because solo class" that pays attention to the collateral damage.
    Quuq likes this.