Can only DPS at about 40% of normal with new pet aggro changes

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Danille, Jan 29, 2016.

  1. segap Augur

    And how many warrior threads have there been about how broken of an implementation stances are? Copy over something that is not well liked just to make another class to play the same broken way another does? Mages are not warriors and should not be forced to play like one.

    For the record, I'm not a mage. I just dabble with one on occasion. I just think it's ridiculous that certain members of certain classes think that all other classes should be tuned and played through the perspective of the class they play. It's that crap that helps destroy this game. Diversity of distinct classes that allow different people to enjoy the game differently is a strength. If a restriction of your class bugs you so much, stop trying to ask for other classes to also be restricted in that way. If it bugs you that much, switch classes.

    It's also funny when people call mages over powered. Currently, there are two classes I'd consider to be over powered and ready for some stagnation and it is not mages by a longshot. And that's part of the eb and flow of class balance. Different classes get the spotlight and others eventually cycle up through future boosts. I'd say mages were already past their prime spotlight days.
    Igniz, Mayfaire and Sancus like this.
  2. Makavien Augur

    Too bad Brutal was completely wrong and alot of people defend points of view based on friendships and not facts .
    Sorry I added the last parse needed to show how op pets actually were over a fully raid geared warrior cycling full defensives . And I was not the one that started it but, I did add a true parse with everything all the mages were saying made the parses invalid ie full defensive disc rotation.

    Sorry Danille this is such old news to even bring up . But pets in fact were taking DI 1 hits 80% of the time even super weak pets like the fire pet and the sk pet. I am sorry you don't understand how much of tanking you taking di 1 - 5 rolls is . But, let's put it this way what made warriors stronger than other tanks other than a few skill points was we automatically take lower di hits .

    And segap there are a couple things broken with stances but that's just because the developers have been to lame to fix them because they are simple to correct and would prolly take Dzarn 15 minutes.

    And the rest of the issue is the community was not listened to 100% even though nothing we were asking for would be op at all . No where close to the kind of power mages expect to have.

    And stances are kind of the only way of adding diversity without basically merging multiple classes together that gain all strengths and no weaknesses . To gain power in one area you have to lose power in another area or the game just is no longer fun and balanced.

    If the majority of warriors in the game decided to retire there would be no more everquest .

    And that's the thing there are really no new warriors coming into this game I still meet new people from time to time and the majority of them are mages . The warrior class being so important to raiding should require it to be kept a fun and exciting class.
  3. RangerGuy Augur

    From what I remember you showed a warrior parse that was like 20 minutes long that had used discs, thus watering down its impact. Instead of seeing what happens when they are up.

    I'd love to see a pet tanking 6 mobs at once pretty easily under some stuff. Or tanking 40 mobs for just long enough for groups to area effect kill them.
  4. Makavien Augur

    If you don't parse for a long time then the numbers are inaccurate long parses is the only way to get the di spread as close to exact as possible.

    So , basically you don't understand how and what it takes to parse accurately. I used discs and aa for mitigation that entire time and no offensive discs .

    Inaccurate would be this situation - I am trying to show what my di rolls are but instead of doing it properly I burn all my offensive discs seeing only di 1 and di 13 for example and I base everything off that parse ....

    I did the exact same parse scenario with the mage water pet btw I just didn't post it in the drama thread . And when they over nerfed it at first I even went to test to make sure it was not an over nerf saying mages should be able to pet tank up to 3 npcs at a time ..

    And they still are capable of doing that with a real healer just like I can .

    With a single merc I would not really trust it to heal me with 3 in say either crypt zone unless the group has really High dps.

    Before the pet tanking nerf mages could pet tank 6 mobs in neriak if they did it properly.
  5. menown Augur

    To add to this, I would love to see SK pets tank raid mobs because DI is all that matters! Lol
  6. RangerGuy Augur

    I'm not sure you know how to parse without an agenda.

    Pro tip, if you actually want to see what happens while under a disc or some combination of discs you link a bunch of fights that fit those conditions into one longer parse. Then your actually showing what happens when under the discs when claiming your showing what happens under a disc while still gaining a larger set of data to smooth out randomness. So if 20 minutes is what you wanted to show then show 20 minutes of combined parses while under the same discs. Not 5 minutes of this and then 15 minutes of nothing while saying see that this does nothing at all, because I watered it down for another 15 minutes.
  7. Makavien Augur

    Who said its all that matters ? Di is the base of everything that hits you if the sk pet was taking di 1 rolls 100% of the time or any di up to 1/4 of what it would take to 1 round the pet then yes the pet could tank raid mobs fine .
  8. Makavien Augur

    Pro tip the di numbers are wrong and vary on every single fight so it would be not even close to showing the true di 1 - 20 spread.
    Saying pro tip before spouting out things that are completely false and have been proven false for the last 16 years makes it not even close to a pro tip.
    I included all spell data by the way so there was nothing hidden.

    Doing it your way would get you numbers that are all over the board and some di 1's are higher on one mob while being lower on another .

    My only agenda is keeping a fun balanced game where all classes are needed and all have strengths and weaknesses .
  9. Sirene_Fippy Okayest Bard



    Have fun tanking raid mobs with SK pet, let me know how it works out for you.
  10. Matari Augur

    Please provide the data of mage pet tanking 6 mobs roughly around its level for any meaningful time. No way I could do this my gear.
    Igniz likes this.
  11. menown Augur

    Who said its all that matter? Why you did before you edited your post. DI is important but you neglect parry/riposte/dodge and HP. Pets do have lower parry/riposte/dodge results than a tank which are extremely important. Only the Mage Earth pet rivaled and beat a Warrior for HP, so I'll give you that one.
  12. Makavien Augur

    No I didn't ? I didn't change that part you are just angry and trying to win the internet . Protip you can't hurt my feelings or my resolve thanks for playing though. Too bad the parses I did were both on the same named in current content Sirene .

    You know what a di 1 roll is like depending on the mob from 1 - 1000 or so damage ?

    Here I will explain why you are so misunderstanding the importance .

    Pets taking 80% of di 1 rolls.

    Warriors block, parry, riposte,dodge , and cause misses maybe 20 - 25% of the time with today's heroics.
    Last stand lowers the hits by a set %

    Warriors and all tanks were taking 80ish % of hits while very few of them were di 1 - 10

    So even without those defensive skills do you not see how much lower high damage spikes the pets were taking regardless if they were Earth , Water , Air or Fire ....
  13. Makavien Augur

    That was in cotf who keeps parses that long I guess I am just making stuff up to hold the magician class down even though I support most of your guys opinion on the aggro nerf lol.

    And you need a real cleric to do 3 of them easily now you run in a circle while backing your pet off and sending it in on each npc for 30 secs or so total and then you burn them down (once the aggro is fixed) or with silent casting it's not really all that hard.
  14. Benzarden Augur

    So much spilt milk. So many tears.
  15. Piemastaj Augur

    I am still unsure how pets being unable to maintain aggro turned into them Tanking.... Being able to get aggro and hold it has 0 to do with taking hits and or surviving the hits your taking.

    Pretty much goes back to my point about Warriors wanting to pee in Pet Classes cheerios. We ask for the pets to be able to gain and maintain aggro properly, and you get to see why pets should not be able to tank at all or as easy.

    The best thing about stances is, pets already do relatively low DPS while tanking, even lower with it being an Earth pet. And a DPs disc (Virulent Talon) is what actually allows the pet to get high aggro. So all of the 'make Mage pets do no DPS while tanking' is quite comical and shows how little people actually know about the class they are trying to nerf. Not to mention while trying to maintain a tanking presence in a grouping atmosphere for a Magician, we run out of mana quite often and actually do become a bystander while our pets do minimal DMG if your consistently killing.

    Now, that is not saying we do no DMG. It is saying that we can not maintain our group tanking for very long without optimal Mana regen. Pretty much hinders a group to pet tank unless you have a Bard pumping the Mage.
    Igniz likes this.
  16. Sheex Goodnight, Springton. There will be no encores.

    They make the best lube. It is known!

    PS: pet stances wouldn't help the situation at all. True parity would mean giving pet users *activated* abilities that they could situationally and intelligently use to support them being the "tank" (defensive, AE taunt, dps burn, etcetc.), at a cost of their attention/dps/other stuff. But it seems pretty late in the game for drastic changes.
    Igniz and Benzarden like this.
  17. Sirene_Fippy Okayest Bard

    I wasted enough hours of my life parsing pet tanking 2 years ago. You are welcome to show me some SK pets tanking current named content to change my mind.
  18. Makavien Augur

    The only way they can is if there are no aes that don't 1 round them or they take all di 1 rolls and those di 1 rolls =below at least 1/4 maybe more like 1/8th to be safe of their hp. With that they could do it but, I never said it would be worth doing nor did I ever say pets need nerfed .

    Other people brought that up Pie . The other day I said the earth pet seems to be taking a little bit too big of spikes while tanking 2 yellow cons but , I am not going to sit here and let people twist data that was accurate back then .
  19. Dre. Augur

    The AC formula gives more effective AC to NPC's than it does to PC's. IIRC, the devs chose to adjust NPC AC value instead of changing the combat formula.

    Let's all remember that this was a broader issue than the pets of one class. Throw in some stuff about pet heals/aegis and a shift to more "active" tanking abilities for pet owners and I think we're caught up on the ancient history.
  20. lancelove Augur

    What Piemasta said...