So you come to berserkers boards as the first thing, implying we need a nerf when in fact we do mostly between 160-200K damage on a 1 min burst (which is great!). and we top not much over 200K, depending on frenzied resolve. At the same time we tank after 45 sec burn. We are support rogues because you need a buff, if you want to whine about overpowered classes look at the casters currently but do not spew out wrong numbers about berserkers. atleast give the right numbers.
The DPS of casters is the reason why I cut my raiding. I confirm the numbers. And ... this is the rogue's board too.
At first zerkers were so bad they would leave the game in droves because of how bad they are at dps. Then it was well ok yeah we can still burst amazing but our sustained is so bad the class is broken. 100K or more 3 minutes into a fight and then 40-60K 10 minutes in when played right is not a joke and far from needing fixing. Soon enough the people who aren't getting those numbers will and they will be like oh I guess the class wasn't dead after all. I just didn't know how to. Talk to the good zerkers in game besides hyperbole ones on the boards. Rogues might not be hitting 200-250K but they are just as capable of holding onto reasonable dps for a burst class 3 minutes into the fight and also maintaining 40K+ for 10 minutes. So ask for some burst tweaks to even the burst field. A few rogues here readily admit the are in a half raid half family oriented guild. Which is probably very common these days but you don't get to tune around the "6th" man who lacks support just because its common ignoring what you are capable of when you are supported. Melee has always been heavily dependent on adps. For just about every year prior to VoA this worked in their favor immensely. Go parse a necro with support verse a necro without a chanter and bard and I bet it is a huge gap. Same goes for a mage and to a much lessor degree a wizard, even though in sustained its probably would be a giant gap as well because of mana. Casters took forever to get to that point, it might not be as large as gap but they only just got to the point that adps mattered enough to warrant raids even caring about supporting a caster group or two.
As i have told you numerous times fansy things have changed since we talked about how bad our burst was. I am not gonna read your post its too long and you dont seem to listen anyway as you keep repeating stuff that we have already covered and agreed upon. please stop posting in melee. thank you. If you want to keep posting in melee i suggest you make a thread and support a bump for rogue burst DPS, else go to hybrid and caster they agree with you that casters should rule all. Please get this into your head Fansy: Berserkers had a skill that radically changed our burst since we started talking about this, stop making comparisongs between old problems and new ones.
So right now is 100K+ for 3 minutes and 40-60K sustained for 10 minutes is not enough for zerkers or rogues? Or should we bring down the servers based on the hyperbole as of the past few months and radically change everything and then continue bau once t4 launches. Because that is what is possible right now from knowledgable melee. Just as the players were bursting well for quite a while had to inform you and others who jump on the hyperbole bandwagons before actually playing extensively for themselves. Soon you will find out how to sustain very well for a top burst class, alas its still not equal to mages or necros so you still have to fight the zerker fight of supremacy or bust. Someone spoon feeds you the recipe to do good burst or good sustained or you whine about it on the boards, because in the past you knew what to do so we can trust you. Since Nov. nothing has changed except hyperbole from bad players or from people who genuinely don't know any better and buy into what they read from more vocal people. Wizards sustained is broken. Sustained has taken over in raids and needs to be cut back some in favor of some more burst events. Minor tweaks of some other stuff is needed for some classes or some classes adps effects. Thats about it. No class is dead or dying. The game isn't driving people in droves because of class imbalance. The game is old and content or the lack of it paired with summer boredom have brought on the pretty normal summer time whoas.
no one has spoonfed me anything, and every guild I have been in I have done well as a berserker. but good try. There is 1 single skill i hadn't tested because I don't play currently, thats not "spoonfeeding me". I have only ever seen Behelit beat my 10 min sustained record in VOA expansion. so please stop your nonsense.
Its a wonder the rogues and zerkers who are capable of great burst and good sustained don't show up here more and share with the whiners in a public forum. Its almost like they have past experience with some of the more vocal people here or with those who lobby for their agenda at all costs and don't want them to know about it or how to do it.
I would love to talk about this in a sensible manner, but the warnings you get for asking for reductions in class A abilities other than your own mean its just not worth it. All I will say is rogues in my opinion are perfectly balanced, 2 other classes need to be brought inline with rogues in both burst and sustained. If we keep increasing the dps output of class X to meet current ubah class Y this game is never going be well balanced.
a bit of that, and a bit of not wanting to explain ourselves to the polar opposite but equally insane crowd that will claim "every zerker can put up 200k burns without support!" why jump into the mud if you dont have to?
- Nobody needs a nerf - Zerker burn is fine - Zerker sustained could use a fix - Melee dependance on support could use a fix - Rogues need some love I think that about covers it
Or exploiting an as yet unknown bug. That seems outlandishly high, so either fluke or if being done regularly it's using some loophole.
Ok let's put your cards on the table and see what data you have to support that? Here's the most outlandish caster parse I could find from our own events: Jorlleag on 20/04/2013 in 264sec Wiz --- DMG: 34313252 (11.33%) @ 130469 dps (129974 sdps) --- Special: 7 Nec + pets --- DMG: 31216402 (10.31%) @ 118694 dps (118244 sdps) --- Special: G So ~4.5 min and 130k dps. Admittedly this was before the "fix", but the wiz in question claimed it actually made very little difference to his output. (Alas he no longer raids so I can't really ascertain the truth to that.) Yes I know it's a bit of an outlier, but let's face it the parses you'll throw back at me will also be very carefully cherry picks. So go on - find the BEST you can and paste it. This is genuine too I promise you.
You're right on #3 and 4. I'm not posting any parses, but zerkers are fine simple as that. We could use some tuning in support dependence, but that mainly effects mid tier guilds who simply do not have enough bst or bards. I still stand by my claim bst should never of gotten Nature's Fury they should of made it self/pet only and upgraded war cry. They could of added the flurry effect to something else without making yet another class that melee NEED or they simply cannot compete. That is where I take a stand if casters can compete and win parses without optimal support melee should be able to do the same. Bighitz your view of the situation is biased the class is not as bad as you seem to think. We do not just fall off the chart after 45s. Sure we fall, but we do not fall fast enough for a necro to catch us until most of our disc are gone. You really need to play again to see some realistic parses. The higher our burst the longer we last before we fall below necros in sustained. All of this is without a tier 4 weapon and maybe a new 2h damage aug. Let's not pretend the world is ending here.
Bighitz you're the only zerker left claiming the class is broke you don't see ones who raid posting here claiming that anymore.
You are right slasher - actually I wont 'contribute' anymore to these discussions, too much has changed since i quit it seems. I dont want to nerf call without reason, and I didn't want to crusade for berserker DPS if it wasn't needed. I have been sent parses and done some numbers juggling myself, but after last patch I can't keep up with our state so I wont mislead further. I am glad we are doing fine now as we are suppose to as a pure DPS class. Good luck.
Not reading all this but I am fairly certain if nothing changes wizards will be asking to sustained like zerkers soon enough.
... and to expand on what Slasher said here... necros can and should pass us once our discs are gone (well, shortly thereafter) ... I'm fairly happy with where we are at the moment, considering that the minor tweaks that "may" be needed will probably be addressed once t4 weapons are available. ** P.S. I like the idea about increasing warcry and making fury self/pet only for BLs... that would remove a lot of our dependence issue.
because youve ever seen a zerker hold 130k dps for over 4min? look at the parse brogett linked on this page and try repeating that comment about "wizards asking to sustained like zerkers", unless you are somehow trying to say that Wizards will be asking to be nerfed down to zerker sustained levels which I dont see them doing anytime soon.
Not exactly 130K for 4 min but yes I have seen 110-120K for just shy of 4 min and 145K+ over 3 min from zerkers. Can't wait to see what T4 weaps adds to this so I can start my necros need 250K burst or the class is dead threads.
The only number there you listed that makes sense is 110-120k range for a 3min parse. 145k for 3min isnt happening on a zerker. and thats still under Wizard level dps for the timeframe, so not sure how that proves your point about "wizards asking to sustain like zerkers soon" /g Lady Mirenilla in 212s, 25341k @119533dps - Behelit 25341k @119533dps even assuming I average 50k dps over the next 54 sec (to match the Wizards parse duration), thats another 2.7mil dmg over 54sec, for a total of 28041k dmg for 264sec @ 106215dps. so even assuming MAX non-disc dps for the next 54sec of that parse I'm plummeting from 119k at just before the 4min mark to 106k half thru 4min. meanwhile the wizard did 34mil dmg at 130k dps... and your trying to make this sound like zerkers are out-sustaining wizards? lol... are zerkers dying and in desperate need of help... no are we equal in both burst and sustained to Wizards? burst yes, sustained not even close. o and t4 zerker only axe is a 2.2% ratio increase over the t3 2hs. so t4 ratios will be a drop in the bucket
