Bullying on AB

Discussion in 'Player Support' started by cadres, Aug 7, 2020.

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  1. cadres Augur

    Just had a very disturbing conversation with a young lady friend of mine
    There is a player on our server, quite notorious for all the wrong reasons, who has been reported many many dozens of times (that I know of, so probably hundreds)
    He's taken a dislike to my friend. Or maybe a like.
    He follows her from zone to zone and up and down the zones whenever and wherever she tries to play. He puts 2 groups right, literally, on top of her 2 toons and then kills anything she tries to fight.
    The only time it doesn't happen is if she's in a full guild group and in zones where he's less active (eg higher floors in tofs)
    She has reported this but nothing has happened (I know I'm not allowed to go into any detail)
    Other than only doing missions or waiting for full groups (her playtime is outside peak hours, which doesn't help)
    Can anyone suggest what we/she could do (that won't get us banned ;)) ?
  2. CatsPaws Augur

    Someone else mention a player following them around recently - "He then proceeds to just tell me he's been following me around for weeks to different zones...." but it was to report for afk killing, which I am sure your friend is not doing.

    You said she reported it but nothing happened. Depends on what she is telling you and/or how she reported him. I have reported players for harassment. It does seem like nothing happens cause I never hear back on the details but the harassment stops. I think they get banned - not sure. Not sure what other details you cannot go into.

    This is just odd -they way you phrase it makes it seem it is related to her being a female but it would only be related to her gender if she told him or he sees your post. So assuming he is following her just to harass her then she needs to take screen shots and after she has collected a few then report him for harassment. Like she goes to zone A and he shows up then screen shot it and leave and go to zone b. If he shows up again then screen shot again. Make sure you get a time display so they can see its happening soon after you leave a zone.

    Usually its best to ignore the other person but sometimes a tell just asking them why are they doing this? or letting them know that they will be reported if they don't stop can help

    No one knows who is behind the keyboard, it might be an ex or something. Is she underage?
    cadres likes this.
  3. Skuz Augur

    Sounds like straight up malicious harassment.

    Best thing she can do is try & capture these interactions on several videos & make sure she has timestamps on in a large enough chat box with large enough text it can be read in a video capture for any text interactions between her & this bad actor.

    Then she will need to petition giving server, zones, dates, times of a string of these interactions which will give the cs people enough information to take decisive action.
    Any other supporting information will also help.
    Corwyhn Lionheart and cadres like this.
  4. cadres Augur

    This guy is a very well known campstealer/afk player and has been for some time, definitely not an ex or similar.
    There is no dialogue. She did once or twice ask him, very politely, what he was doing and why he was taking the mobs but he never replied. He doesn't reply to anyone about anything I think.
    She says the no dialogue thing makes it more creepy, she's really upset about it.

    The reports included screenshots etc, but not video
    (I don't know how to do video, not sure if she does)

    It might not be anything to do with being female. There's plenty of 'girly' toons played by men, but she's been around a long time and I would think most people know she's female

    We know nothing happens because he's still there and the behaviour has escalated rather than improved over the weeks/months until it got to today which upset her so much she's talking about quitting
    I meant I could not talk about the GM responses which I've seen and which I am unhappy with; I understand posting about those is against the T&C
  5. CatsPaws Augur

    How odd that the GM responded to a harassment petition. Or that this known camp stealer is concentrating on one player. Perhaps the GM misunderstood and thought the petition was about camps? Cause ya know, there are none in EQ:eek:

    Shame she wants to leave the game since it doesn't appear to be personal at all. I would just move on but I am pretty thick skinned and if someone wants the camp that bad they can have it. I can always go forage something I need for tradeskills in some far away zone and if they were to follow me there then it would be really boring for them.

    Why isn't /anon working for her?

    Guess as a last resort she could think about changing her characters name. But why spend money on that when he would just show up at those same camps again.

    Well, I wish her luck.
  6. Cragzop Augur

    Find an article on the internet about harassment in online games and contact the author about doing a piece on this (or the website/magazine). The fact that EQ has had a female producer all these years and really isn't any better at policing this stuff is a spicier angle on the typical (unfortunately) story.

    Once you've been in contact, send Dreamweaver a PM and tell what you are doing. DPG may not care about players harassing players, but they better care about bad press.

    I'm not sure what California laws are for in game harassment, but if anyone has them, it would be California. Could send a letter to the AG.

    But actually stopping the in game behavior, pretty difficult without some kind of external pressure changing CS behavior.
    Corwyhn Lionheart and cadres like this.
  7. cadres Augur

    It becomes stalking when you follow her around many zones
    It becomes stalking when she moves away in the same zone and you follow her time after time after time; taking every single trash mob she pulls, stopping her from playing
    It becomes stalking when you do it day after day, week after week, month after month
    It's not a DPS 'race' when you have 2 groups of 6 vs one lvl 115 and one lvl 97 - that's bullying, pure and simple

    If you leave your group afk for hours on end at a spot , not engaging any mobs, you really can't expect that you should keep that spot and no-one else gets to play there ever
    (I note that when a full group of raid-geared types turn up, you don't bother playing your 'dps race' with them, but that's pretty much what bullies do)

    I don't believe she appeared 'on top' of your group either; she wants you to stay away from her. Being in the same zone/expansion is not 'on top' of your group

    Just. Leave. Her. Alone.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  8. cadres Augur

    Anon probably doesn't work because the stalker has groups in pretty much every zone, or moving through every zone pretty much constantly. But i will double check she is using it - thank-you
    If he was only around for a few hours a day, yes she could go and do something else. But this is a guy who camped wurms in GD for 8 days solid without a break, at the same time as camping Stratos and mereatas and goodness knows where else, so pretty hard to avoid if she actually wants to play.
    It's maybe not personal, but she's pretty shaken by it all the same
    Thanks for your kind words
  9. Ottotto New Member

    Red: How can one be AFK and camping wurms for 8 days? Contradiction? Also I was not afk and actively killing when the trio showed up.

    Green: You can't really consider "moving away" if you inched forward 100 yards and start pulling same mobs can you? If you want Kodiaks, try south of wurm cave.

    Last thing before I go back to Kodiaks: You are in a serious mental condition if you are thinking of harming yourself because of an online game (per screenshot, and you are the only one causing harm to yourself). Here is some help I can offer you
    https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/video-game-addiction#1
  10. Skuz Augur

    You offered not one single apology for how you might have looked by completely ignoring her efforts to communicate her distress to you and then you throw out this little gem, that's not only cold & callous but blatant Gaslighting.

    You could have spoken to her in game & tried to resolve the problem, but you didn't.

    You refuted not one accusation that you had been following her around zones.

    I think Dreamweaver needs to lock this thread & then maybe have a chat to you about your conduct towards other players & if you can't take on board how your actions have been perceived like you are some silent psycho stalker & show some humility in trying to avoid players who are clearly distressed by your presence you deserve any suspension or ban you may receive.

    Stalking someone is a choice, a bad one, stop doing it.
    toodlem, Duder, Yinla and 1 other person like this.
  11. Ottotto New Member

    When you started pulling literally 100 yards from an active group and get out DPSed, you move to another camp, not one that is another 100 yards away/LOS and pulling the same mob, and certainly not to become a crybaby on forum, threaten to harm yourself, or call the police. However, if you decide to remain and pull, I think you for your kindness.

    It is hardly gas-lighting when I stated the fact, which is certainly verifiable with logs on server side, that any active killing (so-called stalking activities, LOL) of the said characters were all happened within 300/400 yards/LOS.

    Prove me wrong.
  12. Skuz Augur

    You're missing the point entirely.

    You have been accused of some pretty disturbing behaviour, none of which you have denied even after it was pointed out to you multiple times. Either you are dense or you are deliberately avoiding addressing it & instead focusing on just 1 incident where you feel your actions were justified while not even mentioning the broader pattern of behaviour.

    You need to think on this harder before commenting further.
    Duder and cadres like this.
  13. Skuz Augur

    Allow me to clarify since the message is clearly not permeating your mind after several attempts.

    The accusation was that you have followed a specific player to multiple camps in multiple zones and harassed them by killing the mobs (DPS racing in your words) where they were located, all while completely ignoring their efforts to communicate with you.

    Do you deny that has been happening?

    I refer not to the one specific instance that you seem hell-bent on restricting this conversation to but multiple occasions, multiple instances of this behaviour.

    Do you understand what it is you are being accused of at all?
    Not one incident but a pattern of them...
    Duder, cadres and tanith like this.
  14. tanith Elder

    Right.
    Let's put some of this rubbish straight
    I was one of the people affected by yesterday's incidents
    There are any number of lies and half-truths here that need clarification

    Firstly, the substantive issue is not about yesterday's events at all. It is about stalking over many many months, some of which have been reported over those many months.

    This 'person' is not some hard done to legitimate player but a very notorious campstealer who has bullied numerous people and been the subject of numerous threads. Occasionally he creates shiny new profiles on the forum to spew disinformation about his activities

    At the camp concerned here, he leaves one of his groups (sometimes dead, sometimes alive) inactive there for for many hours.
    As someone said, IMHIO he doesn't get to 'hold' a camp, any camp, just by sitting there for hours. That was the situation when I got there yesterday. The 'B team' was there but inactive. They had been inactive for close to 2 hours that I knew of (maybe longer) I was helping a lvl 96, so no uber dps was going to be happening. I pulled a few mobs. The B team woke up. The lvl 96 had activated their LoD so I kept pulling. There's loads of mobs at this camp. The B team never clears them all, neither do I, even with a full group. I wasn't hurting anyone by finishing her LoD.

    As as aside, in 20 years of very active EQ playing I have never, ever, knowingly killstole or taken someone/anyone's camp. In fact, I'm the kind of person that if you need that camp that I'm at for your hunter or other quest, I will usually happily hand it over. If I'm not with a group, I'll even help you if you want.

    Back to yesterday. "Ottotto" (we all know him by another name) brings his 'A team' and camps them bang smack on top of my group. He starts doing what he always does, interfering with my pulls. To start with he's just putting his pets on them for some weird reason (pissing on territory perhaps). Then he starts just killing them. There's me a lvl 96 and a couple of mercs (one lvl 96), I can't compete on DPS here. I move not '100 yards' away, but to the opposite corner of the zone. He follows. He camps his big fat mounted group on top of my group. He takes everything I pull. Move to opposite zone corner, repeat. (I'm just trying to get the lvl 96 LoD done here). At each spot, my group mate does move a few yards, several times, because she is uncomfortable, he moves back right on top of her.

    Another poster was correct; I'm sure "Ottotto" wasn't targetting the lvl 96. He was targetting me. He's done it more times than I can count at more camps than I can count. I can rattle off a list of maybe 50 players he's also done it to without thinking too hard in this expansion alone.
    But the lvl 96 had only seen this behaviour once before - when he took the same camp from us a few days ago. This time she thought he was targetting her because the group warped/was placed directly on top of her each time. She was unhappy and upset and, I think, frightened. She did send tells, very nice polite tells asking him to leave us alone. I told her not to bother because it wouldn't do any good. I was right. There has been some rather 'creative' editing of the 'screenshot'. My logs are available etc

    To reiterate, this isn't a one-off. It's just one example of many dozens of near-identical events at many camps.
    Quite why a man with so very many groups of toons to play EQ at his disposal wants to spend his time following a woman with a small group and/or a couple of alts around and around and around is anyone's guess.
    At best this is *seriously* creepy behaviour. At worst it's psychotic (in the correct usage of the term).
    Anyone capable of this level of harrassment does need to be looked at before their behaviour escalates with tragic consequences - as we've seen happen enough times to be forewarned
    Duder likes this.
  15. Ottotto New Member

    TLDR version:
    Since when the right to silence has become criminal?

    Oh by the way, pretty liberal use of the term “stalking” and “psychotic “

    PS: seems you think I edited the screenshot. How about posting yours? Make sure you time stamped it.
  16. Skuz Augur

    Still no denial of the accusation of a pattern of harassing players, I think that says a lot.

    Your screenshots can be checked by CS for accuracy easily enough.

    By all means keep digging a bigger hole for yourself but so far to me it looks like you should quit while you're behind.
  17. dreamweaver Community Manager

    This thread is locked, cadres and tanith if you'd like to discuss further please contact me directly.
    Duder likes this.
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