Buffs and Level Ranges

That's really surprising to me that it's based on the lowest level the spell can be cast as. Another complication in the buff usage. But in any case, I'm not sure that changes anything with regards to changing the buff ceilings in that 40-60 level range. It seems like the same behavior exists whether it's the original ceiling values or new ceiling values. But with the new ceiling values, the players in that 40-60 range could get higher level buffs cast upon them.

The idea that someone being slightly more op at lvl 1 somehow translating to recklessness and incompetence is a true testament to the length of mental gymnastics people will go through. Bravo.

I need to correct my earlier post. I believe it is at level 46 that ancient buffs will land, Level 47 and buffs up to 65 will stick. I was looking at spell sets on my shaman and saw I had some fuzzy thinking in my previous post in this thread.

You know the actual level - spell level minimums were given in a post just below your first one.

There's no need to guess ... that post has the right information.

P.S. Ancient (level 60) buffs will land starting at level 45.

I cannot fathom why anyone cares if a new level 1 character gets mega buffed or not.

Most(all?) classes dont even get their real abilities and spells until much much later into the game anyways, so there is nothing to learn about the class early on that isnt going to be something you pick up at a higher level anyways.

Fun fact, you can DS PL any character on a high level anyways so why does it matter what character gets the buffs?

Didn't you hear? Being slightly stronger at lvl 1 means you will become an ABSOLUTELY RECKLESS PLAYER.

Don't you ding level 2 after you kill just 1 thing? While they are tinkering with buff level limits shouldn't level 1 be a hell level so people learn their class before they get all those phenomenal cosmic powers?

Since the mount buffs fully effect a very low level character that can summon the mount, character cast buffs not landing is not really following the same rules. Though, I suspect the mount buff fully affecting any level is either an oversight or something they were unable to change to a scaling or restricting the buff while not making the mount unusable.

For simplicity, though, if all buffs aren't going to work on all, I wish that all level 60 (or maybe 65) and lower buffs would land on any level and everything above that level follow the current structure. That would allow some of the group buffs to land on a low level character (and make it possible to use them with MGB) and make it a lot less difficult on the caster to buff a lower level friend.

Allowing all buffs to land on any level character trivializes what has already been somewhat trivialized (mercs, increased XP, defiant gear, etc) to a point where any remote level of "challenge" is completely gone. While I am not an old man "back in my day" with regards to this topic, at the same time having zero challenge at all is something I think devs don't want to incorporate on live servers, hence the buff level limit.

Having said that, I also agree that less than 1% of live population plays the 1-110 game, so getting people quickly to 110+ benefits live servers- and all buffs on all levels helps speed that up. And I also agree if you want the "challenge" of 1-whatever, you can play on a TLP. The only issue with a TLP (coming from someone who has never played a TLP) that I perceive is due to how fast expansions drop, you almost have to be playing a lot to get max level/substantial AA before the next expansion comes. It is not a year long thing like live, but a couple months you have to repeat for years to keep up with the Joes...

Buffs shouldn't really be an issue. For around the last 10 years I have done MGB sessions on my server most days and usually 2 to 3 times during the day. If its a day that RL keeps me away when I can I will log in just to do the MGBs. I do 8 different levels of buffs from the main 8 buffing classes and announce a 7 min countdown to it each time doing two full rounds of buffs then one bonus round of the 120 buffs. I did miss a year when I had too much on my plate in RL and was only logging in for guild business.

The level ones get 4 or 5 buffs from the lowest group castable buffs I have and that lets them be pretty OP as it is.

I am sure folks on other servers do this too. And if they don't they should.

How can you say it shouldn't be an issue, then say you didn't play for a year not providing buffs. Not even mentioning you're not online 24/7/365.25 across every server.

Just add the dang buff bots to the lobby and remove buff level restrictions, already. Let's focus on QoL for people.

So you are saying that a lowbie having like 30k hp vs 20khp is going to materially effect the challenge they experience?

No one is required to get buffs from anyone outside of the group. If you want to have challenge, you can make more challenge for yourself by not seeking out buffs and even removing buffs you get from well-meaning players who buff before asking. You can also not use the shared bank on a character and only use what that character gets from drops, quests, or buying from an NPC (such as spells, etc.).

I am saying a level 1 w/level 120 buffs is going to have a completely different challenge than a level 1 w/level 1 buffs. As in, there will be none.

Yes, everyone has an opportunity to click off every level 120 buffs that are given to their level 1 toon. Not arguing with that.

Of course, I can count on zero hands how many level 1 toons who come back from a two hour long AFK session spent in POK or Guild Lobby or wherever your server's MGB location is would actually click thr buffs off...

Sure.

But a level 1 created today has a completely different challenge than a level 1 created in 1999, too. A level 1 on a Live server has a completely different challenge than a level 1 on a TLP which is also completely different than the level 1 created in 1999.

Most level 1 characters created today, on whatever server, are not made by players who are 100% new to the game. Even if they were, should they have to walk to and from school in the rain uphill both ways for miles just because you remember it that way?

Besides, many or even most new characters not on TLP are made in the Gloomingdeep Mines tutorial where the maximum level in the zone is 10, so that hypothetical level 1 with 120 buffs is really a myth.

For me when playing a low level character, one of the biggest benefits of higher level buffs is not the strength of the buff but that it lasts longer then 15-20 minutes. For me as a higher level character buffing a friend's low level character, it is an utter PITA going through the "will this land" to try and find the maximum level that can be cast for the longer duration. If you get a buff from someone and it wears off in 15 mins but it takes 10 mins to get to the spot you want to hunt, how useful is it?

EQ2 mostly has 'group buffs' that only are applied to those with whom you are grouped. It does not encourage grouping, but it does make it more difficult to solo (or did, pre-merc), especially for some classes.

Thats not we are discussing though. It's a level 1 with lvl 70 buffs (or w/e the lowest buffs are) vs w/ lvl 120 buffs AND a lvl 46 with lvl 100 buffs (or w/e the cap is) vs lvl 120 - and all the other differentials.

This isnt even addressing the lack of clarity for the players about what level buffs they can cast/receive

If I can do buffs others can. Ergo. Not a problem.

I could honestly care less if a level 1 has level 120 buffs instead of level 46 buffs. I have three level 120 characters, one of which I haven't played in three months and with cloak grind and slayer on my main (and summer approaching), I don't foresee playing that neglected character for another 3-6 months. So my chances of creating a level 1 on Live is pretty much zero. So this topic doesn't affect me.

However, I just wanted to post about what I think is a reason why devs don't want level 120 buffs on a level 1. The game gets easier when you have level 46 buffs as a level 1, and it gets trivialized with level 120 buffs. Not sure how else to communicate that. And as easier as the devs have made it to level up to get to 120, I would guess they also don't want you to go from 1-110 in six hours (exaggeration, calm down) with level 120 buffs.

But again, I don't care what they decide. Does not affect me. Just offering an opinion as to why it has not happened.

What if a buff merc was created? Then tie the flag to acquire it to a big achievement, like Hero's Journey?