Buffed Luclin NPCs on Progression servers

Terrible decision, Luclin was already a challenge for top tier raiding guilds. Please reconsider!!! DB you're pushing your player base away, and you're not listening to your customers.

Luclin was nothing close to a challenge on Fippy/Vulak. Buff is great.

What we can't 26 man the end raid zone of an expansion? please nerf

I think we are less concerned with it being buffed a little ( like 20% mitigation wouldnt be a huge deal....

I think the main concern is that at the start of EVERY EXPANSION they tend to overbuff the out of everything and its nearly impossible for all but the top guilds with 70+ people...

as it should be...want loot? earn it.

^^ We? Lol @ Entendre trying to chime in on a post about raiding end game content. Have any more open world Sev wipes lately?

Smaller guilds (or tier 2 guilds if you will, no offense to any guild in particular) shouldn't expect to be clearing endgame raids in the first few days/weeks of an expansion imo. The changes Prathun discussed that are being implemented affect the entirety of the new TLP servers, but I would imagine they want to increase the level of difficulty for the top guilds in an attempt to give some kind of real challenge, not just -expansion launches: all raids clear- day 1. I'm all for this personally.

If it's done correctly sure. I think I could see your point of view. The problem is and I think we can all agree is that DBG has provided us with a track record of not doing it correctly. Then the guilds have to wait a month for a patch day because DBG refuses to "emergency" patch something that is CLEARLY wrong. This sort of things hurts for the raiding guilds on Phinny who only have 84 days to raid the content before the next expac.

Highhealz I agree with you, but you have to understand they are working with limited resources and time constraints. I would love it if it was perfect too. If that were the case, I wouldn't have came to TLP in the first place because of being so frustrated with how broken the TBM launch was, even after spending a few hundred hours beta testing it and watching feedback go unanswered. I came here for a change of pace, and ultimately you guys are yelling about the exact same issues live servers are dealing with; lack of testing, pushing broken content to patch, and a lack of resources. There is no easy solution to these issues. My suggestion is to enjoy the game for what it is and realize sooner rather than later that they are doing their best with very limited staff, and ultimately a lack of needed resources to do everything we'd all like them to be doing.

Having massive numbers isn't really "earning it" any more than logistics.

And those logistics start to be counter productive to keeping a playing population.

As past servers vs. Phinigel has shown - more people play when they've got things to do - if you start forcing more and more people out of the raiding game (because of population needs to do the majority of appealing content) you'll accelerate the attrition that occurs.

Phinigel has been remarkably attrition free - pushing such content tweaks to require inappropriate roster sizes to the old days is no bueno.

54 should be the highest "required" target number for raids IMO. A reasonable number for any healthy population guild to do, but not REQUIRING a ball-busting full raid. (I am talking about 54 on their A-game though - might need a full 72 with some slackers/people that are learning to play ideally)

Resorting to guild bashing, that the best you got for this argument?

It appears the only ones against proper tuning, or stopping the buffs are the top guilds who get a stiffy flounting their shiny pixels.

I already said im for proper tuning, however, every expansion has been a cluster of severely overtuned mobs that take weeks to fix. With 84 fixed days per expansion that is a little rough.

Now show me where the non-hardcore guild touched you. Or are you upset that this "2nd rate" guild is going to kill the same mobs you did in era?

But....

What about buffing Rhozth Ssrakezh in Ssra? Prevent weird things happening when the conditions for triggering cursed cycle are met in a pickzone, plus sort of cement's that mob's identity as the trigger mob for that cycle for raid disputes, since it's clearly the most important of the trigger mobs.

In the original game and Kunark, the raid bosses were basically glass cannons--they died pretty quick but they put out some serious damage to the entire raid before doing so. People died during classic & kunark raids. The guild's collective health bar steadily goes down against classic/kunark mobs, if the mob's goes down faster the raid wins, if it doesn't the raid loses. This is why buffing classic / kunark mobs hp and mitigation was brilliant, we're still fighting basically the same mob, but lengthening the fight makes it a *lot* more difficult. Right now there are 11 guilds that have killed Gorenaire according to phinnykills.com. If you put in a hotfix right now that further tripled Gorenaire's hitpoints and told all 11 guilds to go back and fight Gorenaire, not all 11 would kill it. Most of them would wipe a few times before declaring they can't do it. It's a race, your guild's hitpoints vs. Gorenaire's. Adding to Gorenaire's hitpoints decreases your chance of winning that race in a fairly linear fashion. Therefore, mob hitpoint value is roughly synonymous with mob difficulty.

In Luclin things are different. The mobs are the opposite of glass cannons, they're extremely durable but don't put out much raid-wide dmg at all. It might take 20 minutes to kill a mob, but unlike classic / kunark the raid's collective hitpoint bar doesn't steadily go down during these fights. It fluctuates between about 95-100pct between CHs landing. We don't take a bunch of aoe dmg we have to grp heal through, we don't get feared and lose tanks and dps, etc. We just stand there, autoattacking, with a few clerics keeping 1 warrior alive for 20 minutes. The clerics have enough manaregen to sustain this indefinitely. This is why buffing Luclin mobs hp and mitigation is a bad idea. It doesn't make the fights more difficult or more interesting, it just makes them last longer. If 6 months from now we're in the middle of Luclin and the same 11 guilds that have killed Gorenaire have killed DXVT, and you all the sudden ninja hotfix tripling DXVT's hitpoints, those same 11 guilds will all go back and kill DXVT the next week. Tripling DXVT's hitpoints doesn't make the fight any more difficult.

I absolutely love the fact that for this round of servers the developers have put work into tuning the raid content for the server. The power creep we've had over the years had really trivialized 32k hitpoint mob raiding, and the amount of enjoyment I've gotten out of fighting classic and kunark content that's actually a challenge for 54 people on these servers has just blown away my expectations. Phinigel is the best special server you have ever made by far, and Mitigation of the Mighty is a big part of it. I think it's a really, really, really bad idea to continue increasing mob HP and mitigation in a boilerplate fashion in Luclin. Want to add a shadow buff to use the progression server code for Luclin bosses? Sure. Want to have that buff also increase their melee dmg output? Absolutely. Making the fights last longer, though? That'll just bore people to death. I am all for Luclin raid content being interesting and difficult, but you won't get there by buffing NPC hp and mitigation. Short of coming up with a completely alternate solution that is likely to demand far more resources from the team (such as adding aoe dmg or other interesting mechanics to these fights, which I certainly wouldn't be opposed to but that's unreasonable to even ask for), I really believe doing nothing is better than simply making the fights last longer.

You realised you just linked something showing MOTM staying at exactly the same % damage reduction? 40% all the way from rank 1 to 3.

Technically the spell guard threshold has been diminishing (AKA the over 1k penalty on nukes)

lol, so a 0.003% overall damage increase to raid DPS. Great.

no even, nukes over 1k were hitting for less than nukes that do under 4k... This has been remedied... For wizards and to an extent rogues during a discipline this was huge.

I've done the calculations, going from 40% to 20% spell guard is roughly a 0.003% increase to raid dps.

Think your math is off.. that means a raid doing 2000 dps goes up to 2000.06 dps?

Also I dont think its just spell guard, I think its all damage