bst pets, accuracy, weapon type

Discussion in 'Hybrid' started by Kompton, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. Kompton New Member

    are bst pets suppose to have 30% accuracy when using any weapon type besides h2h? normally my pet is sitting around 70-80% accuracy but if i give it a mage summon weapon that isnt h2h it goes down to sub 40%.
  2. Garrum New Member

    Would be interesting to know if this is intended or not. I have stopped using all but the mask on my pet, and the damage increase from the mask is minor. My pets damage has increased since making this change and the survivablity seems to be the same with or without the mage summoned items(some crafted items will do better). This is with the EM 24 earring. Honestly I would prefer to see the game get away from mage summoned pet items period, it would make balancing the pets much easier for the devs and would be so much less of a hassle to deal with.
  3. Yimin Augur

    And why does there need to be balance for pets ? Mage should have and will always have a little better pet then Bst and Necro ! They get far less toys to use and need a tougher pet

  4. Goodkitty Augur

    on phini i go by proc rate modifiers, so GoD pet proc item summon item. I had no clue of this though
  5. Rashod Lorekeeper

    As this topic continues to come up with more posts I thought I would add a few numbers for those that enjoy them! Below are parses/my conclusion from earlier this year in February. I am by no means a parsing master so please feel free to dissect/tell me if there is anything wrong with any of my assumptions below. (Please note: disregard accuracy numbers I had misses off)

    Beastlord Pet Parses

    Postby Rashod » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:06 pm
    All parses run at 10mins, each consecutive parse has parse before its conditions plus what is noted. Parses run on the level 109 dummy. Pet summoned with EM 23.

    1. Spirit of Visoracius, Sekmoset's Agression, Extraordinary Velocity, Focus of Okasi, Spiritual Vivification, Bestial Evulsing
    /tell Rashod Rashod`s warder -vs- Combat Dummy Caza: -- DMG: 7073245 -- DPS: 11750 -- Scaled: 11634 -- Bite: 6887923 -- Bash: 108342 -- DirDmg: 76980 -- % dmg as normal: 49.3% -- % dmg as critical: 50.7% -- Non-crit rate: 73.1% -- crit rate: 26.9% -- Attempts: 2064 -- Hits: 2064 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 3426 -- Max hit: 8483 -- DMG to PC: 0

    2. Might of Wild Spirits (Epic Click)
    /tell Rashod Rashod`s warder -vs- Combat Dummy Caza: -- DMG: 7485529 -- DPS: 13202 -- Scaled: 13202 -- Bite: 7297481 -- Bash: 101328 -- DirDmg: 86720 -- % dmg as normal: 45.5% -- % dmg as critical: 54.5% -- Non-crit rate: 72.8% -- crit rate: 27.2% -- Attempts: 2166 -- Hits: 2166 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 3455 -- Max hit: 8483 -- DMG to PC: 0

    3. Visor of Gobeker (mage summoned haste mask)
    /tell Rashod Rashod`s warder -vs- Combat Dummy Caza: -- DMG: 8284065 -- DPS: 14688 -- Scaled: 14688 -- Bite: 8079364 -- Bash: 111618 -- DirDmg: 93083 -- % dmg as normal: 46.6% -- % dmg as critical: 53.4% -- Non-crit rate: 73.1% -- crit rate: 26.9% -- Attempts: 2421 -- Hits: 2421 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 3421 -- Max hit: 8483 -- DMG to PC: 0

    4. 2x Thalassic Fireblade (mage summoned proc sword)
    /tell Rashod Rashod`s warder -vs- Combat Dummy Caza: -- DMG: 8323556 -- DPS: 13804 -- Scaled: 13804 -- Slash: 7975707 -- DirDmg: 233087 -- Bash: 114762 -- % dmg as normal: 49.9% -- % dmg as critical: 50.1% -- Non-crit rate: 75.7% -- crit rate: 24.3% -- Attempts: 2614 -- Hits: 2614 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 3184 -- Max hit: 8483 -- DMG to PC: 0

    DPS went down, recreating #3 to ensure it isn't just high

    3.2. 1+2 and Visor of Gobeker (mage summoned haste mask)
    /tell Rashod Rashod`s warder -vs- Combat Dummy Caza: -- DMG: 8820282 -- DPS: 14627 -- Scaled: 14603 -- Bite: 8593085 -- Bash: 118500 -- DirDmg: 108697 -- % dmg as normal: 46.2% -- % dmg as critical: 53.8% -- Non-crit rate: 72.6% -- crit rate: 27.4% -- Attempts: 2611 -- Hits: 2611 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 3378 -- Max hit: 8483 -- DMG to PC: 0

    Confirmed Parse #3 was accurate rerunning #4 to confirm swords are a dps LOSS

    4.2 1+2+3 and 2x Thalassic Fireblade (mage summoned proc sword)
    /tell Rashod Rashod`s warder -vs- Combat Dummy Caza: -- DMG: 8561324 -- DPS: 14245 -- Scaled: 14128 -- Slash: 8180038 -- DirDmg: 260098 -- Bash: 121188 -- % dmg as normal: 46.3% -- % dmg as critical: 53.7% -- Non-crit rate: 73.3% -- crit rate: 26.7% -- Attempts: 2626 -- Hits: 2626 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 3260 -- Max hit: 8483 -- DMG to PC: 0

    Re-running #4 one last time for dps LOSS conformation

    4.3 1+2+3 and 2x Thalassic Fireblade (mage summoned proc sword)
    /tell Rashod Rashod`s warder -vs- Combat Dummy Caza: -- DMG: 8638923 -- DPS: 14116 -- Scaled: 14093 -- Slash: 8299507 -- DirDmg: 225242 -- Bash: 114174 -- % dmg as normal: 47% -- % dmg as critical: 53% -- Non-crit rate: 73.7% -- crit rate: 26.3% -- Attempts: 2616 -- Hits: 2616 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 3302 -- Max hit: 8483 -- DMG to PC: 0

    Enough for me to confirm Thalassic Fireblades are a dps LOSS.

    5 1+2+3 and 2x Brightedge (fancier mage summoned proc sword)
    /tell Rashod Rashod`s warder -vs- Combat Dummy Caza: -- DMG: 8652539 -- DPS: 14325 -- Scaled: 14325 -- Crush: 8285143 -- DirDmg: 246252 -- Bash: 121144 -- % dmg as normal: 46.9% -- % dmg as critical: 53.1% -- Non-crit rate: 73.9% -- crit rate: 26.1% -- Attempts: 2636 -- Hits: 2636 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 3282 -- Max hit: 8483 -- DMG to PC: 0

    Also LESS dps than without, going to call this conformation that beastlord warders should not be using mage summoned weapons.

    6 1+2+3 and Bestial Bloodrage (5min pet disc) - Parse still 10mins, in hall so disc doesn't fade.
    /tell Rashod Rashod`s warder -vs- Combat Dummy Caza: -- DMG: 27233022 -- DPS: 44426 -- Scaled: 44426 -- Bite: 26996481 -- Bash: 120816 -- DirDmg: 115725 -- % dmg as normal: 39.8% -- % dmg as critical: 60.2% -- Non-crit rate: 73.3% -- crit rate: 26.7% -- Attempts: 2635 -- Hits: 2635 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 10335 -- Max hit: 29196 -- DMG to PC: 0

    7. 1 + 2 +3 +6 Savage Rancor + Ruaabri's Fury + Second Spire
    /tell Rashod Rashod`s warder -vs- Combat Dummy Caza: -- DMG: 50520840 -- DPS: 82014 -- Scaled: 82014 -- Bite: 47416172 -- DirDmg: 2933269 -- Bash: 171399 -- % dmg as normal: 40.6% -- % dmg as critical: 59.4% -- Non-crit rate: 73.2% -- crit rate: 26.8% -- Attempts: 3822 -- Hits: 3822 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 13218 -- Max hit: 37500 -- DMG to PC: 0

    Lessons learned:
    1. Mage Haste Mask IS worth it, use it!
    2. Epic click is worth about 1500 dps, get your epic, click your epic!
    3. Mage summoned weapons LOWER beastlord pet DPS, DON'T use them!
    4. Bestial Bloodrage is outstanding use it everytime its up.
    5. Pet on full burn is around 80k dps. Please hit your discs.
    6. Rashod's a moron and didn't cast fero...
  6. Duhbeast Augur

    would you mind trying one with dimensional gear? Briteblade? blade of eternal tempering? 2nd spire?
  7. Boze TLP complaint factory

    Thanks for doing this. I wonder if the mage wep thing is unique to certain level pets or true across the board.
  8. Rashod Lorekeeper

    I can definitely do some more parses, but need/want to start all over from the beginning (new pet, new EM, new spells, etc)

    Before that though I have some questions for you before I set up a sequence of parses:

    1. Briteblade? I am not sure what this is, is this a new mage summoned weapon or did you mean Brightedge which is parse #5 above.
    2. Blade of Eternal Tampering - not sure how this will ever show up as better dps than the other mage summoned weapons with a lower proc.
    3. 2nd spire - to compare against what? I guess I am confused as to how 2nd spire isn't just going to add X dmg on to each of the parses above (minus the burn parse, but I wasn't really using that to compare against anything was just trying to show guildies what they could do). Maybe I'm just totally wrong here, let me know! In addition if you were just wanting to see full burn Second Spire was used in parse #7.
    4. Dimensional gear is something I never tried and definitely can.

    So, I'd like to set up a sequence of things we want to test so I have a plan before we get into it.

    Current thought:
    1. Equivalent of Parse #3 above as the baseline. (Self Buffs + Epic + Haste mask) - I think there is no argument here that everything there is a boost to DPS
    2. #1 + Dimensiional Gear
    3. #2 + 2X whatever the best current summoned weapons are (what are they?)
    4. ?? Do we want to see full burn with and without weapons ??
    5. ?? Anything else
  9. Rashod Lorekeeper

    Not a problem Boze.

    It is 100% based on whether the proc makes up for the missed damage or not. Which I expect is probably consistent unless there are some levels where the procs are that much greater than what the pets are hitting for.

    It probably needs tested to confirm ;)
  10. Duhbeast Augur

    Yes I meant the brightedge, sorry I missed that. I mentioned 2nd spire because of beastial bloodrage, I guess I wanted to see max dps of pet that you were testing possible, but I missed option 7 as well. (I'm bad) I mentioned the tempering blade because of the heroic and other stats, maybe they play an impact in chance to hit, same theory with the full dimensional, and especially the haste on the belt being more than the mask.
  11. Duhbeast Augur

    might as well go all out and go full dimensional + jewelry and see if it helps m8. This is a post from my luxury pet gear a while back.

    For non-vis I'm looking at Ancient Ritual Mask, Arx Mentis Stud, Forgotten Relic Necklace, Combine Soldier's Ring, and timesplitters throwing axe for ranged.
  12. Sancus Augur

    So I'm not a beast, but I do know a fair amount about pets. Apologies if there's some beast specific thing that I miss.
    The best summoned weapons are just the normal ones summoned from Mage Grant Wirn's Armaments. They're better than Brightedges at this point. That said, the only useful thing pet weapons do is allow (water) pets to backstab from the front. The procs/stats on them effectively do nothing. I don't know why DPS would go down, but it wouldn't appreciably increase it either.
    Tremendous Velocity gives you 85% haste, and the mask gives 23% haste. You're capped at 100%, and 85% + 23% = 108%. As such, extra haste (not haste v3) isn't going to do anything.

    Also, if you're looking at pet damage in a raid environment, combat dummy parses will not accurately reflect what you see. You can read more about it here or vote here, but essentially there is a bug where pets lag on raids and don't swing for extended periods of time. It's inconsistent and not reproducible on a combat dummy, but it's important to consider when trying to estimate pet DPS in actual combat scenarios. It definitely affects Mage pets and most of the people who post about it are Mages, but my understanding is it affects beastlord pets as well.
  13. Rashod Lorekeeper

    Thanks Sancus. I believe the leading theory on why the DPS is going down is related to accuracy. It seems something is causing the beastlord pets to miss miserably if they are not using H2H.. Which sort of makes sense, but I am unsure what exactly its coming from.

    I have noticed this before as well, but without the actual proof. Regularly I see my pet doing no damage for extended periods of time on raids. I had always assumed he missed a lot on the higher level mobs :). Thanks for leading the charge on this one.
  14. Duhbeast Augur

    So you had tested with aggression on all fronts right? just making sure because the buff does describe increasing attack rating, or lower when protection is on.
  15. Rashod Lorekeeper

    Checking my notes from the initial parses, looks like the survey says yes. Parses practically a year old now so I'll run a quick preliminary test later to make sure the old conclusion of less dps with weapons is still valid. But I'm assuming that's the case looking at the original discussion before I came in.
  16. Boze TLP complaint factory

    Really curious about how this might scale down for TLP. I've noticed my pet parse varying wildly (like 100dps variance, it matters for TLP :D), but hadn't noticed any obvious patterns why. I'll run some tests later.
  17. Rashod Lorekeeper

    Okay reran a couple basic parses.. I'm going to conclude the same thing I did before that it is actually a DPS loss to put the weapons on them, but I am not sure if that is just the variance in the short 10min parse or not. Accuracy did not drop as much as the original posts were stating (it was down 1%). I think it may even out to be basically even if you let the parse go for hours, but who knows. I would do it if the pet didn't stop attacking on its own.

    Update as of 12/21/17:
    New 108 pet, EM 24 - Buffs: Spirit of Beramos, Tremendous Velocity, Virzak's Aggression, Spiritual Vibrancy, Fero Rk. III, Might of the Wild Spirits, Bestial Savagery
    Level 110 Dummy

    No Weapons:
    /tell Rashod Rashod`s warder -vs- Combat Dummy Caza: -- DMG: 11589734 -- DPS: 19316 -- Scaled: 18876 -- Bite: 11348248 -- Bash: 142824 -- DirDmg: 98662 -- % dmg as normal: 46.5% -- % dmg as critical: 53.5% -- Non-crit rate: 73.4% -- crit rate: 26.6% -- Attempts: 2609 -- Hits: 2495 -- Missed: 114 -- Accuracy: 95.6% -- Avg Hit: 4645 -- Max hit: 11242 -- DMG to PC: 0

    Mage Summoned Weapons (Brightedge):
    /tell Rashod Rashod`s warder -vs- Combat Dummy Caza: -- DMG: 11389483 -- DPS: 18982 -- Scaled: 18550 -- Crush: 11024543 -- DirDmg: 224250 -- Bash: 140690 -- % dmg as normal: 47% -- % dmg as critical: 53% -- Non-crit rate: 74.1% -- crit rate: 25.9% -- Attempts: 2680 -- Hits: 2533 -- Missed: 147 -- Accuracy: 94.5% -- Avg Hit: 4496 -- Max hit: 11242 -- DMG to PC: 0
  18. Goodkitty Augur

    Have you parsed with mage summoned fist wraps?
    IblisTheMage and fransisco like this.
  19. Boze TLP complaint factory

  20. Gio-Cefalu Augur

    Is this true for all pets, or just BL pets? I have a mage, shaman, and SK in one 3-box, and I play a BL on the same acct as Shaman sometimes. I almost always give weapons to all 3 of my pets, and I wonder if it lowers the DPS of the SK pet, too.

    Also, what about for a BL warder that's tanking? Is it worth it to use the Hate swords? I'm a little less focused on DPS with the pet tanking, but still wouldn't want a considerable accuracy drop as damage is still important when the pet is tanking (especially as more dmg = more aggro).