Broken Golem....

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Zookeeper87, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. yerm Augur

    It isn't suffering to have a meaningful epic quest that you can feel proud of completing or just skip and be quite fine without. I am trying to stop many of the rewarding experiences that make me love eq from being broken down into meaningless tasks with no sense of value, because of players who feel entitled to everything without time or effort (many bragging of paying to win) only to quit before the game gets challenging.

    I am doing BIC right now, and enjoying the effort involved. I will feel good about finishing it. I want things like this to stop being destroyed by bad, lazy and/or uncommitted players.
  2. Thygrym Elder

    If we were all 20 years old with nothing better to do but play EQ all day/night long.. you might have a point yerm. As it is... 3 epics have massive bottlenecks while all the others don't really have any at all (I've seen level 50 monks get their epics already). DBG should at least level the playing field and either remove the bottlenecks for SK, Wiz and Enc or add some for all the other classes. The next best in slot item for Wizards is the VS staff which is about half as good as the epic.

    Simple fix, put the wizard piece back on CT so guilds can get it when doing instanced versions of Fear and also get it from open world CT. Or they could just make the broken golem spawn in instances. You still need to get at least a small raid force together to kill the enraged and the trash you'll get on the way. So it's not like it's that easy.
    Amadismangler likes this.
  3. Trox2010 Augur

    Except there is nothing epic about the wizard quest; all three fights are easily 2 groupable as long as you aren't in nothing but cloth gear and level 50+; unless your idea of epic is being able to leave a few other people feeling like they just wasted their whole day because you happened to snipe the turn in half a sec before them. They really should just add the piece back to CT with a rare chance to drop so you have a small chance to get it in DZ clears; at least the CT fight is an epic fight the first couple of times you do it; broken golem is a joke if you get the turn in.
  4. Dresden Journeyman

    Man if only you camped BG as much as you whined on the forums you could have your epic by now
  5. Gremin Augur

    I dont agree with Yerm too often but when I do I drink Crown.
  6. Aneuren Tempered Steel


    This means you take your enjoyment in attaining these items from the fact that other people don't have them. That's a problem. The rewards should be meaningful because of the difficulty involved in the quest, not because other players do not have them.

    BIC is actually a good example of a quest that doesn't really rely on artificial scarcity to be hard to complete. Most people that are able to get the raid drops can easily get the rest. Moreover, there's no disparity between some classes being able to waltz right through their version of BIC while other players are confronted with the kinds of arbitrary roadblocks involved in certain epics.

    BIC is further a good example because it is a lengthy quest that not everybody does, which runs counter to the idea that you need long respawn timers + uninstanced content to have truly grand or epic quests.

    In the end though, it's quite frankly amazing that players on a raid-instanced-content server need to keep having this conversation. If a player can overcome the in-game challenge, they deserve the reward. If the concept that other players are skilled enough to beat content is somehow personally offensive, that isn't enough of a reason for Daybreak to continue to allow players to grief other players under the guise of accomplishment, dedication, or commitment.
    Son_of_a_Bixie likes this.
  7. Trox2010 Augur

    Actually I do have my epic right now, and none of the fights had a single epic feel to it, camping teh BG had zero epic feel to it; it all was mehhhh. Hell the Staff of Temperate Flux and Tarton's Wheel quests had more an epic feel to it.
  8. Thygrym Elder

    Another golem sniped from under me... 2 accounts cancelled. They can't fix things after 20 years so there's no point in expecting them to do anything right going forward. After 15 years away, I had a little hope they actually had fixed some things. 1 of 2 simple fixes is all it would take... let the broken golem spawn in instances (like almost every other class epic mobs) or put the drop back on CT so it has a chance to drop in instances as well.. at least then it's harder fight.
  9. Dresden Journeyman

    How silly. The epic can be replaced in velious just move on
  10. Thygrym Elder


    Actually no, it can't.. not until at least Luclin other than 1 staff quest in Sleepers Tomb. Even in Luclin there's only 3 items better (that's 5+ months away yet). And apparently only a few classes should get to have their epics right? The golem can spawn between 24 and 72 hours... best case he shows up daily that means at best 90 wizards on the server could get their epics in era. Worst case he shows up every 3 days which means only 30 wizards on the server could have their epics in era. Beyond Enchanters and Shadow Knights, no other classes are that limited on epics. In almost every case, their mobs spawn in instances and picks.

    It's about more than just the epic... read some of the threads on here... this stuff has been a problem going back to when the game was first popular (15+ years ago). It's quite clear the developers are incompetent at best given how they changed charm/coth... where was the testing on that one fellas? (if you can't kill your mob in roughly 3 seconds you'll lose it to bard charm). Everquest is Everbroken. Thus I'm taking my money elsewhere and DBG can eat the loss (as small as it may be).
    Son_of_a_Bixie likes this.
  11. Aegir Augur

    Just get Staff of the Silent Star in NToV and get the Broken Golem somewhere at end Velious where nobody cares about it anymore. Save up energy for Giant - and Dragonbane spellquests in Velious, they have a bigger impact on your class for that expansion than your 1.0 ever will.
  12. Son_of_a_Bixie New Member

    /highfive
    Aneuren likes this.
  13. Aneuren Tempered Steel

    People are fiercely opposed to the concept of a broad segment of players obtaining epics, or completing certain quests, because they are unwilling to acknowledge that the early game was never that hard.

    Those same people expect Daybreak to maintain the illusion that these items were elite through the use of artificial roadblocks (like three day respawns and fights between the players themselves) so that they can maintain some semblance of pride in owning something that was never that hard to obtain. Largely, players were just worse at the game 20 years ago, and hampered by technological limitations as well as a lack of overall knowledge.
  14. Gremin Augur

    I dont see how his statement made you think he takes enjoyment in attaining items others dont have? BIC as you stated takes time, raid force(in era, less as server progress') and commitment. I agree with Yerm(damn, I gotta stop this) that it sucks to see the game changed over laziness, etc. Epic to me means not everyone is going to have it(and not because I enjoy others not having it), otherwise whats epic about it?
  15. Trox2010 Augur

    So what you are saying is we should lock all the other classes "epics" behind BS time gated mechanics so as to fully limit the influx of those classes items? Maybe DBG should just gate it so that only 20 people of each class can get their epic at the launch of each expansion?

    An epic quest should be long and involved, and have a few truly epic fights, and no fighting the boredom monster for what could end up being close to a 48 hour period while you stare at one spot waiting for the NPC to spawn is not an epic fight. There is nothing epic about this encounter; this isn't the type of tale you would regale your grandkids with:

    "There I was waiting for that golem to show up, and I waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited,and then he finally showed up. I quickly turned in the gear, and the enraged version spawned."

    "Ohh grandpa I bet that was an epic fight thou."

    "Meh not really, 8 of my friends and I gave him a right thrashing. It wasn't even close, barely even hurt Fred the tank."


    DBG should just add the oil as a rare item to CT's loot table, and can still keep the BG on the same spawn timer to help with the Live servers still. Could probably do the same thing with the Enchanter Fear piece. Not sure on the SK bottleneck. or the Cablis piece for Enchanters since I've never done those quests.
  16. Gremin Augur

    Well since I have a grandchild and another on the way, I can tell you I dont regale my grandchild with tales of EQ at all. Having said that I do understand where you are coming from with having to stand around and wait on mobs. I have done it with raster(128 hours back when epics first came out), done it for ragefire( 3 days straight then it got kill stealed by another guild) in nags lair for my wifes cleric and so on and so on. All those at the time sucked, but not I view it as a story to tell and funny in some ways and epic in others. All told I have done or been a part of probably close to 300 or more epics since starting this game back in Beta 2. Everyone is going to complain one way or another about mechanics of this game, some dont have the time, some dont have the raid guild, some dont have the desire etc etc etc. There is no perfect way to build this online game. Just like there is no right way to do classic, because no one can agree what classic is anymore.

    As far as what I am saying, you did the same thing that Aneuren did to Yerm, you assumed. In no way did I imply that "we should lock all the other classes "epics" behind BS time gated mechanics so as to fully limit the influx of those classes items". What I did say is that epics should take time, raid force and commitment. Please, dont put words in my mouth.

    As far as BG's loot goes adding the oil as a rare to CT loot table would only serve to bypass part of that epic step. The point of the broken golem was to help wizards not have to deal with CT, thus raid guilds killing him, and make it easier on wizards overall. A step that happen years ago, and was in the right direction. If you look at other epics, such as warrior, you can see there is multiple steps that require us to have to kill a mob(hence wait for him to be up like the BG) in order to obtain our pieces such as Green Scale, Red Scale, etc etc. I am sure there is plenty of other examples regarding epics similiar to BG.

    The reason this has gotten worse is because Daybreak made it easier for their servers to handle more accounts per server now. So now these new servers have thousands more people, all expecting their epics to get completed and of course all impatient at getting them.
  17. Aneuren Tempered Steel

    Look at the context then.

    This is a thread about Broken Golem, where OP asks Daybreak to place instanced versions of Broken Golem into the Fear DZ. OP states, “The broken golem was put into the game as the intended fix to the original wizard epic bottleneck: Killing Cazic Thule and getting his skin. Since CT was farmed by the top guilds on each server it was hard for any other wizards to get their epic. SOE wanted to relieve the bottleneck by having the broken golem instead.”

    Yerm then states, “They moved the guts back to trak for bards, so I imagine they could just move the golem back to being CT skin.” But he goes on, two posts later, to add, “Many of the epics made easy to obtain no longer come across with any semblance of feeling epic. Whip out a wiz epic and its oh cool you have your epic, that's awesome. Whip out a cleric epic and it's oh cool you aren't a lazy slacker can you believe there are clerics who still haven't done theirs? I would love equity too... but it's not exactly kosher to call for a bunch of nerfs to most of the epics to make them harder yo obtain without raid farming. So I just try to defend the ones I can. The sk epic is kind of messy now because they curved the soul leech bottleneck and it's stuck at turn ins, and the enc is also a bit silly because tlps have thousands of people playing the max level fotm class so it causes a backlog. The wiz epic... this is perhaps the last surving "epic" quest left, nicely set up with the hurdle being 3 kills and the golem adding a competitive bottleneck that generally needs friends (a guild) to win. I don't want it nerfed. Wiz was my first raid/hardcore class I played and my epic was a big point of pride, and not something my more recent clerics have come close to with that epic when I do it.

    I’m not sure if you didn’t read the entire thread or if you’re just trying to poke holes in my argument, but Yerm is making clear that it is the feeling of exclusivity that gives him pride, especially where he contrasts it to the cleric epic – of which he writes, in far less glowing terms, that clerics without an epic are lazy slackers. Mind you, the cleric epic in current iteration has both Bergurgle and Grimblox, not to mention RNG-heavy pearl shards, and two minor fights. So it isn’t without those time-sinks that allegedly create grand stories or fond memories. The only difference remaining then is exclusivity.

    Yerm approves of the “competitive bottleneck” Broken Golem (despite suggesting that it could be added onto CT). His suggestion, though, made sense, since CT is an instanced raid mob that takes at least some measure of numbers and skill to beat.

    Gremin, you eventually write that adding the oil to CT loot table would “bypass” part of that epic step. I’m not sure if you view that as a positive or a negative. I would view it as a positive, since it gives more Wizards access to in-game content. I do not believe that Daybreak’s current policy of using players to punish other players in certain content is a positive direction for this game. I do know that some players crave that in-game competition from other players, which is why I never advocate removal of open world content – but I do advocate for concurrent instanced content that cannot be gated by other players. People that crave the competition can do so if they choose, but people that do not should not be forced into it. People that do not want to compete in this game are not lazy, or uncommitted, or bad, just because they do not want to compete. There were servers for people that wanted to compete against other players – they ultimately failed to the point where developers refuse to create any more such servers.


    Different class epics are on a difficulty scale. Some are and always have been easier, while others have not been. But even the easy epics are still called epics, still result in an epic, because what made them epic are the items themselves. By your own definition Gremin, helping resolve some of these unfair bottlenecks would still leave them as epic, since they still take "time, raid force, and commitment." Players should have the opportunity to complete their epics without interference from other players (I wait with baited breath for the troll comments about having an epic in bag at character creation). I cannot see how this is even debatable on a raid instanced server – instances that were created as a result of a significant outcry that open world content is not sufficient to supply a sufficient amount of content for the populations of these servers.
  18. kizant Augur

    Wiz epic is and always was a joke. Having one is a mark of shame.
  19. Gremin Augur


    You are correct, I forgot about Yerm's earlier post. I just dont want this game turning into easy mode instant gratification game. I also do not raid on TLPs with instanced raid content, I play on Ragefire(formerly LJ but we moved the guild). So I was unaware of instanced CT. I still contend this has more to do with increased numbers on TLPs due to DBG making it possible.
    Aneuren likes this.
  20. yerm Augur

    What the hell is going on here? You don't need psychoanalysis to figure out what I am trying to say, you can ask, I certainly post/troll here enough...

    You are completely mixing up exclusivity because of competition with exclusivity because of rarity and/or difficulty. I have specifically made reference to BiC in several places while talking about epics for this reason. Breakdown is NOT a competitive quest, but it is about as epic as it gets anyway, and in my opinion the benchmark by which a good epic/chase quest should be measured against.

    My wizard epic long ago did not "feel epic" because I crushed noobs to get it. It felt epic because I had to kill ct many times before finally winning that part, plus braving fear (it was far more perilous back in the day) and then call friends in. None of this was contested, and by the time I got my epic tons of wizards had theirs. What made it feel epic for me was the journey and the pof clearing and then grabbing friends for bg was a big part of it.

    What it comes down to, since you are all so terribly interested in my personality and posting motivations, is trends and procedures here. I argued hard against any additions to the selo unlock speed despite posting over on foh that it would probably be ok to extend it some. Why? Because I do not want dbg to mess with unlocks and/or listen to the plethora of fools here who always argue for longer only to get bored and quit. I have argued against vp key removal here despite repeatedly mocking the quest design, not because I am just some two faced hypocrit, but because I do not want dbg nerfing content.

    I post here enough I would have hoped my motivations are not hard to spot:
    - I want a social game and am resistant to mechanics that allow players to dodge the community, whether fully instanced grouping or ability to fully box by ones self etc.
    - I want a game with objectives to work towards, and am resistant to any design idea that would give people everything and leave you "done" with stuff to do, whether via too much time in era or too easy quests etc. This maybe you see here?
    - I enjoy competition but acknowledge that people need stuff to do, and therefore like a balanced environment (at least until eq gets sufficiently complex for purely noninteractive racing by like dodh or so) where you actually fight over stuff... but this should be relatively limited to just the very best zone or two, eg vt key camping, and the rest of the raid content below it open for instanced business. I am therefore naturally a big fan of what phinny did with accessible raids but ow keys and extra raid mobs for the more aggressive to go for.
    - I find people who pay to bypass content pathetic and openly mock mangler's seemingly lazy and rmt-bogged populace as an example of my attitude here.

    If you want to know any other worthless opinions or feelings of mine that I thought nobody cares about, please ask. I will gladly answer. No need to keep scumming up this thread (however much I disagree with its op) writing dissertations on the inner workings of my mind.