The problems started in VOA when some berserkers were braggin about valley parse and said that berserkers were the best DPS class of that expansion..
FAIL at reading comprehension Behelit. Nope, I compared my best 180k parse against the best 275k of a berserker (it's not the best I know, but the best I've personally witnessed). That seems fair enough for a ballpark rough statement of "50% ahead". I dare you to post your best genuine raid burns (of say 40sec+) vs your best rogue burns on the same duration targets. It's all well and good jesticulating and getting angry, but it's just fluster and bravado unless you step up and provide evidence to the contrary.
275k is easily achievable in current content. If you're not hitting it, ever, then you might want to ask someone that has and see if something is a little off. If you don't get full adps, that is another story. Current content does not lend to some of our abilities, but it can/ will be hit, and it is by no means mythical. 275k happens quite often (in the sense that it is not mythical by any means). Much higher than 275k has been hit, and those numbers would be the rare ones.
At this point burn is all berserkers have. Rogues beat berserkers on the combine. If you would rather switch places, let me know. The combine is all that really matters in the end. How much you contributed to your guild over the night. In that sense, rogues are winning.
This is why things need looking at though. Devs are wary, rightly so, of giving berserkers more dps as they know it scales up multiplicatively and becomes huge during optimised burns. Given where berserkers are vs others atm, this is causing you stagnation. It's why I am 100% behind giving berserkers things like HHE. It boosts sustained and does nada, zilch, absolutely squit, to your top burn. Bingo! A way to boost without breaking things.
I think all melee classes without the blue bar should get HHE. What are your thoughts on HHE for Warriors as well?
And there we have it. Brogett has only seen 275K once from a berserker.. Yet our all mighty berserkers "frequently" and all the time hit 275K dps on 1 min parses. actually they often hit 350K.. Please brag more and get your class nerfed to further oblivion, get Behelit in on it too. when there is 5 main berserkers left serverwide you can brag to each other about your valley parses while rouges giggle as they agree and then goes on to outparse you on 8/10 events on burst and 10/10 events on sustained
It is not a matter of bragging, it is fact. Saying 275k is mythical is baloney. We have great burst, horrible sustain. If you think this is about ego you're mistake.
Ok Brogett, I read you loud and clear. I think you and I agree that zerk/rog should have an equal damage potential. I apologize if I took you out of context. I just feel like you should be comparing rear arc dependency with these things listed below, not root. Root is a problem all its own. We already have blind, self-damage, self-DoT... forced to be at 90% health or below to activate certain needed burn discs... such as Frenzied Resolve, which must be activated before the mega-burn... an ability called Axe of Zurel which has a random effect (You really hope to get some 90k crits now and then, but lucky if you see 2 or 3)... Without a BST we are well behind... Isn't that enough? I <3 rogues too, in no way do I think zerkers should trounce you.
I dont recall ever agreeing with Velora's statement that "275k happens quite often". In fact I PM'd him asking on which events he's referring to because I personally dont see 275k parses very often at all in current content. Then again I'm not sure why I'm bother to respond, as in all likely-hood we know who you are don't we...Bighitz... Largehits... real hard to figure that one out.
This works except do not start at HHE 15 remember zerkers use a 2h. Personally I would start at HHE 10 and wait and see if it needs adjusting later fine but don't overdue it. You're 100% right though this would do 0 for our burn and honestly HHE 10 would do very little for our sustained during a boss fight (quick time) last what 3m ? After that we have War cry from 2-3 zerkers. We already have HHE 6 for the entire time on most bosses. The other way is volley its a fraction of our burn/sustained. Double or triple its contribution to our total DPS and you lower the auto attack %. This would stagnate the burn but increase sustained in a controllable way. Our burn disc does not have a throwing mod so it has no effect on volley. What COTF events are you hitting 275k on and the boss is actually dead ? hitting 275k on a boss that dies in 200s is not the same as doing 275k on a boss that died in 60s. You hit 275k great you still lost the parse.
If berserkers are in such a great shape, why is half the posts on Goberserker then from retired berserkers that got tired of being linked to BS 1 min parses that isnt achievable 95% of the time? very short term burst is great given that we can be allowed to be rooted and then medium term burst is also fine if we can be blinded... But given those parses any effect on balancing is not very clever to say the least.. they can be our bonus for hurting ourselves on all burns and for the endurance problems the class still has even with endurance canni... Now pull out the blinded parses and the ones where we cant root ourselves, suddenly you got a class that still got a good enough burst but will get beaten by wizards 100% of the time and a drastically lower sustained DPS than any other pure damage class..
No i said we use 2h because they have higher delays if you give us the same HHE it has a greater effect then giving it to a class that already has 18-20 delay weapons. The only real way to control our burn and increase sustained is volley. HHE would only help when we're not in a raid.
Not to be overly simplistic, but what would a weapon delay reduction of 3 base on the weapon stats do for both burn and sustained? That value splits the difference for HHE. Seems like fiddling with base ratios on weapons is the method of least resistance, or would the end result be exponential where even a 1 point delay reduction for weapon base stats become OP? Only reason I bring this up is that HHE is just a value lopped of the delay on the backside of the calculation. Why not lop the delay off at the weapon itself? Sorry if I am being overly abstract but I am not a numbers wienie.
It would increase burn DPS too much to make it a viable option... most of the discussion on the zerker forums about how to increase sustained without over inflating the burn kept reverting back to bonus damage, a flat amount added to the end of a round that isn't affected by multipliers. Something along those lines would have a greater impact to sustained... and while it would add some to the burn, the relative amount would be insignificant. By the way there are basically four arguments taking place over the state of the berserker class (1) the low sustained dps (2) the lack of survivability (3) the dependence on support to reach our potential (4) the detrimental effects we have to use to reach our potential. As I've stated on these forums before, I'm not one of the doom-and-gloom zerkers... I actually think that DPS balance between the pertinent classes is pretty close to where it needs to be. Would I like more sustained DPS? well, sure... BUT, as long as I'm topping burn parses I don't mind the tradeoff of falling off after a while in the sustained department. If I had to pick one of the above issues as the most preferred to be fixed, it would be (3) the dependence on support to reach our potential... with low survivability as a runner-up. Having said that, that's just my opinion as a raid geared berserker. I think for the sake of the group-game berserkers... sustained may be more of an issue and therefore does warrant some consideration. Again, this is just one man's opinion.
Prime, General, and mini named in Karana are all possible 275k plus parses. Again, read my post. I have already said that we have great burst, horrible sustain. A lot with hitting those high numbers has to do with multiple factors: The boss (obviously), your adps, and the way in which your guild controls push. I've been in a lot of guilds over the years. Some create massive push, others are able to control their push quite well. Also, if you're referring to me being Bighitz or Largehitz, you would be incorrect.
I've seen zerkers break 400k over 60s toppling even wizards. Problem is you have two groups of zerkers. One is complaining the burst is good enough, but hybrids beat them on sustain, without realizing if you do enough burst you still win the sustained. They effectively function the same as a Ranger in this regard. The other school seems to think just hitting 3-4 burns back to back and not making the parse means the class is broken or weak. These zerkers blow a$$. I've seen them first hand.
I'm not sure that's true. This is my understanding of HHE mechanics: Hasted_delay - (Base_Delay * HHE/100) Since these calculations use operations against the same number (weapon delay) the benefit should be proportional. Let's apply the numbers: Using Fists of Fury on a 34 delay as an example (HHE 15) 34*0.15=5.1 (base_delay times HHE/100 gives HHE reduction) 34/2.25= ~15.1 (225% haste applied before HHE modification) 15.1-5.1= 10 (effective delay with haste and HHE) Same applied to a 19 delay weapon: 19*0.15=2.85 19/2.25= ~8.44 8.44-2.85=5.59 Comparison: 34/10 = 3.4 19/5.59 = ~3.4 I actually see more benefit on the 19 delay weapon before I dropped the 3rd specific digit, but I suspect this is a rounding error. Volley doesn't scale up with damage mods and ADPS? Isn't that the idea?
