Breaking a Rotation

I think non-instanced content is weak design, but DBG does claim that they're going to enforce player made rotations for raid targets. Until I see otherwise, though, I don't think that included blocking most of the servers from groupable content, raid zones or no. It's a slippery slope that DBG has provided, at best. What will be next?

Refreshing to see that i'm not the only one who sees the one guild Railroad.
Why aren't the 'open' meetings from Aug 29 posted in the public forums? Its almost as if they have some thing to hide while claiming transparency.

All information about the meetings are posted on the public spreadsheet itself, on the reference tab, as they have been every week. They are posted within hours of the conclusion of every meeting, fyi.

Everyone that has payed attention on these forums in regards to rotation knows who Melveny is. He is the only person to still claim any alt guilds, or alt guilds getting dkp from main guild. Considering TL is the guild you guys are referring to, and you still claim they get "DKP" from us is something that originated from Melveny, you're being disingenuous at best to claim you do not know who He is.

On another note, and its very easily confirmed. TL doesn't have a DKP system, and we have a very public "Raid" Section where you can see every mob we kill, every item looted, and who attended said raid.

You're mad because Dojii's attempt to take control of the server lasted 2 weeks. The server as a whole has spoken. Calm down please

I typically avoid the public forums like the plague, but there are many false claims here.

Melveny, why do you continue to attack the council at every opportunity? We have been nothing but fair to you and every member of your guild. I continue to defend the stances of Apokalypsis, not necessarily because I always agree with your stances, but because every guild is afforded an equal voice on the council. And yet it seems you continue to oppose every decision (large or small) that is voted on.

Can you not see that there are 10 other guilds on the council all working together? Compromising on large and small decisions?

I don't know where you came up with what you posted above, but the information you posted is quite frankly ...purely fabricated. I suggest you re-read the logs, which are publicly posted, if your memory is hazy. There is no "shadow council" here. Our agendas, logs, and minutes are all very public. (See the "Reference Info" tab on the public spreadsheet.")

Please start working with us, not against us. We are not your enemy.

-Thalanos

Why would anyone want to be in a guild with 200 individual people? The EQ world has gone mad. No wonder they are getting their panties in a bunch over island 1 loot. They have 200 individual people to feed, plus their boxes.

Sorry, that's a little off topic. Bottom line, you have stuff on a 2 hour spawn, that people want to kill, sitting up for over 12 hours. That's a problem. It's been 11 days since the rotation gurus have been made aware of this problem, and even though keeping island 1 completely empty will never hinder a raid guild, there is no solution. That's a problem.

Here is a little deeper problem with all of this. This rotation and rule set prohibits people from enjoying the game the way it was intended. This main antagonist wants to see if he can do the content. He has a rough idea of what he is doing, but hasn't done all the research. He is fairly certain his 4 box can do it, and he is probably right. To a lot of you, that's a problem. You think he should have to join a raid guild and follow these "leaders". Or he should beg a leader for permission for a chance to kill the mobs. That's a real problem. So I am going to give you an analogy. I am giving this analogy from the prospective of a hetero man, but I know some of you probably aren't, so you need to change the actors in the analogy as it would relate to you.

You have been dating this broad for a month, and you feel tonight is going to be your lucky night. Do you think you are going to enjoy the evening more if you A. Poll all of the dudes that have plowed her before, finding out exactly how she likes it, in what way, and how many digits she prefers where, or B. Going with the flow, and finding out through trial and error how she likes it? I want to play a video game. I look at enough spreadsheets throughout the day, I don't want to stare at one when I play a dungeons and dragons style role playing game. When I am powerful enough, I want to try the next thing on the list. I can live with failure. I can live with someone being better than me. If I want it bad enough, I'll try and figure out a way to beat them at it. Politics, and rotations and spreadsheets and meetings and all that , naw. You are ruining it for me.

We have rotation guilds working together--and hashing out these rotations is *work*--to keep everybody happy, and you're saying its too inconvenient for you to have to ask before doing something? I mean....everyone has to be willing to make sacrifices for the health of the community. I don't see non-rotation-guild players getting the shaft, here.

If attempting to work with the guild whose sky day it is to do some of the lower sky islands is too intolerable for you, come to the next rotation meeting and voice your opinion, preferably bring a solution to the table and be ready to compromise.

I truly feel sorry for anyone raiding in EQ on the TLP servers these days.

Old racing is long gone, just instance those zones.... no wonder people quit these TLP early who wants to wait in a queue to attempt content 15+ years old.

This sound familiar to anyone?

I am not Melveny.

This meeting was to discuss a Kunark Rotation implementation.

10 guilds, 3 proposals heard (2 of which are almost identical and so complicated no one could even understand them to vote), no other proposals were to be heard because its not in the 'agenda'?

An emergency clause suggestion that was in the air for 15 mins or less was voted on, emergency FFA for Kunark, when all that was needed was to schedule a meeting. This was not on the 'agenda'...this very part of the meeting is showing bias, no one else is allowed to make a suggestion and vote on it.
Then the clause was removed and there was 4 yes votes and no more votes were cast, is this not passing?...Then , for some reason this passing vote was scrapped and yet another vote was taken with a different time, and when you left the meeting not a soul spoke up and said they couldn't make it next friday or saturday.
You self appointed leaders and members of the council need to make time, or appoint someone to be at meetings.In real life,you have to show up to your jobs to keep them, if not you will be replaced.


Letting a guild run a monopoly on game content by stopping other players from experiencing it should not be allowed, and any of you who support this system and say you are representing the majority are insanely without morals.
And members at this meeting are pushing for Velious to be unlocked asap and are wanting to allow one guild to do it with no objection...and Kunark isn't even here yet. This is supposed to be the hardcore leadership of Ragefire guilds representing their members?

What a joke

Hey look, another 10 page sky thread where a bunch of doofuses decry rotations and spam "i wont get permission from nobody, i pay my 15 dollars a month HURRR"

You know the funniest thing is that rotations are implemented because the big bad raid guilds can lock down content and ks you until you /ragequit. Usually its the little guys and moaning FOR rotations.

You know why this didn't happen in classic? Because would go into one of these zones, get wiped and lose your . It'd take you 6+ hours to get your back, begging for help from one of these big scary guilds.

Can we stop with these useless threads? Its a PLAGUE. Its repetition. Its the same people posting the same things over and over and over.

The only zone that ever had a real chance of losing your gear in the big bad old days was fear.

Lose your stuff in sky? doubt it.
Lose your stuff in hate? a little more likely but still... no
Lose your stuff in naggys or vox... unlikely
Lose your stuff in kedge? not too likely either
Lose your stuff in fear... yeah maybe. But people still went, and many were the late night CRs.

Rotations exist for the guilds period. I went through 5 years of rotations on the rathe. The rotations saved that server from a lot of griefing.... but lets not pretend that the rotations were for anyone but the rotation guilds.

If they want to lock down content... so be it. Eventually they will get tired of it. The difference this time is that for the FIRST time SoE/DBG is enforcing the rotations. That has never happened before and it has had unintended consequence.

-----------------

"So faceless deguilds and..." --- except insert XXX guild, not just Faceless of course.

avehole - you squared this whole discussion away by putting this in words, which obviously will then almost completely negate all of the hard work those who were trying to communicate and compromise to come up with some sort of an overall accord for the community that would work.

Unless or until DBG gets Rick busy or, literally does involve the entire server community, (and not only guilds) via vote/poll/or another global rules change announcement and enforcement - those who have the ability to do what needs to be done outside of a guild flag, will.

>>>>Square one again, eh? 0-o

And I think that's reasonable. I don't think anyone opposed to being locked out of sky has any personal vendetta against the rotation guilds. It's just a problem that they get to determine when and where we can group, and I mean 1 to 6ish people, not raid. Unfortunately DBG gave them that power, mostly unbeknownst to the rest of the server other than the announcement for raid target rotations here on the forums.

If guilds saw that as an issue and deguilded to camp stuff, that would also cause DBG to actually involve the community as a whole but instead they beat their chest with "DBG empowered us! You listen now girlie!" and cry and complain to a couple of randoms looking to have a little fun with trash mobs. The guilds aren't the ones that complain about the loophole, instead they embrace it and try to force everyone out, that's why some of us are trying to shine some light on the issue. But hey, at least they are thinking about discussing it almost a month after it came up right?

Instead of trying to game the system at every chance, why not work within an alternative solution. What I have put forth, opening isles 1-4 through KoS to open ffa would allow you folks in guilds to work with each other who actually need the content on your time, or to even work w/ non guuilded folks like myself or even in an open raid environment.

If you can mostly enforce what is going on now to stop the griefers, there is no reason we coupled w/ dgb can not stop them in the open ffa environment in sky. We need to request dgb to extend their rotation enforcement so that when your rotation hears that its members can not get keyed because xyz mage box is there every single time, it can be documented and taken to dbg and they do what they do.

I really do not see what all the big fuss is about, I only here a bunch of greedy people saying you can not have this unless you do this, yet I have proved you wrong and will continue to prove you wrong until dgb takes a stand.

Either they allow everyone who can participate in the content who actually can, keep the status quo or they could buff the content to it intended levels based on current game mechanics. I would prefer them to keep keep encounters the way they are, many people have been able to benefit from these levels, it would not be fair to take the benefit from others.

This being said, if they want to tweek your raiding npcs so they are actually raid mobs w/ Kunark+, I am ok with that. Just do it before the launch so everyone is on the same playing field.

And I will say it again, as far as I am concerned, PoS is open for business through isle four and I will continue to treat it as such learning and over coming the encounters on my time, when I find the content up.

I am not really sure it was in the spirit of intent to have guilds rotate group content, it has just happened that way and since they are used to getting their own way, they are clinging to the same tired arguments that were probably made as to why a rotation would not work.

So here we are, the arguments as to why 1-4 should be rotated do not hold water. The compromise of joining the rotation and getting a vote is not a compromise for those who do not want to be involved int hat aspect of the game.

Since there is no compromise coming from the rotation guilds, I respectfully request dgb step in and make their decision. Nothing more is going to get accomplished here.

What I'm not sure of is how you seem to think isle's 1-4 are "groupable" content when you continually try to recruit more than a group in an attempt to kill anything there. Everyone watched as your "group" failed miserably in sky minus killing a few fairies in isle 1. I'll even go as far as to say Isle 1 is groupable. Isle 2 (PoSky) + is not one groupable unless you are in gear better than what you can get from there anyways. And I'll give you a dollar if you can one group Gorgalusk.

I could see you pushing for Isle one to be FFA. No one would care, and no one would be better off because of it. You want some tessera's you can't use? I have a few for you.

I lost my gear on my SK in the OT when I died near the FM zl and was too sjjgfb off to get the corpse. instead I finally decide to roll that enchanter my small guild sorely lacked and by the time I got around to fetching the sk corpse...

Luckily the GM was awesome, restored my corpse and all ended well. I never really looked back from the enchanter either, I still consider it my main even though I tend to gear my warrior first.

Welcome to the forums!

---------------------

*Salutes Flec --

"You know why this didn't happen in classic? Because would go into one of these zones, get wiped and lose your ****. It'd take you 6+ hours to get your **** back, begging for help from one of these big scary guilds."