Boxer Hate Discussion

How did Lockjaw fair compared to Ragefire? Wasn't that the first example we have?

Now we have Rizlona and Aradune, but let's not forget that Aradune wasn't normal Truebox, it was supposed to be two-box. So you have the loss of both those who don't like Truebox and those who don't like that DPG couldn't enforce two-box. Hard to do a direct comparison.

Next year we could get a Truebox and a Boxing-Encouraged server, possibly with random or free-trade loot, or both, or neither. But if Mischief and Thornblade prove to have staying power then that might affect how many go to those new servers.

Rizlona's longevity will probably provide the answer for the most part, but long after we would like to know. It seems to have held up well in the face of a shiny new ruleset, but are those that remain people who want to TLP hop, or long-haul players? I don't think we know a lot of these answers yet.

Lockjaw and Ragefire were exactly the same, rule-wise.

What am I thinking of then? Wasn't there a pair of servers previous to Aradune and Rizlona where the first was truebox and the second was not?

Nope.

Truebox did not exist on any TLP prior to Phinigel.
Rizlona was the first of the post-Phinigel TLP to not be Truebox after a long campaign for that.
Live servers had a 1 client per PC restriction but that was dropped around DoDH (2005/2006)

I like Truebox for the expansions that had open world bosses and events because of that "Magefire" scenario, but the benefits are short lived and once the game has moved into the expansions which have much more instancing (after PoP) Truebox becomes a veritable albatross around the necks of players and causes faster/larger player loss/attrition on Truebox TLP servers compared with TLP servers without it.

I'm remembering wrong then, but I swear there was some difference between Ragefire and Lockjaw. Or maybe I read something that was wrong and just remembered that as if it was true.

Ragefire was originally going to launch by itself, and then at the last minute they announced Lockjaw as essentially an "overflow" server. By then most TLP-based guilds had already committed to Ragefire, which meant a significant population difference. Also, those were the last TLPs to unlock expansions by voting, and with the pop difference they quickly became out-of-sync. Then Phinny launched as the first Truebox TLP, and a lot of players, who thought the Truebox concept would be the holy grail defense against the automated box armies, quickly switched over.

Was Phinny the first server to get AoC's? I think I'm beginning to remember what I was thinking of, and it may have been somebody comparing Phinny to Lockjaw. I just got the names mixed up.

Yes it was.

I think AoC was just as big of a draw if not bigger than Truebox.
Ragefire had mage armies locking down all OW content, the appeal of A) Reducing those via truebox and B) Rendering it moot anyways since anyone could raid anything at any time of day made Phinny a very popular server.

Yes, although at the time of Phinny's launch there were fewer AoC targets than there are today.

I thought MotM was put in to hamper mage armies, or was it done at the same time as true box?

Interesting perspective. This has been my exact experience as well. I've reached a similar conclusion after years of arguing with people in both EQ and WoW Classic about boxers.

I have similar arguments about people who complain about wealthy individuals too. I've given people stock advice and encouraged them to pursue ideas that could make them money outside of work.... No one ever wants to do any of that though because it takes effort. It's easier to complain and whine about things than it is to actually make an effort.

Many people don't want to put in the effort to do things themselves and they're also unwilling (or unable) to control their jealousy and they believe that since they don't want to do some certain thing - no one should be allowed to. I don't want to put in the effort to become rich and take all of those risks - so no one should be allowed to become rich.

It was more of a technical limitation than an intentional restriction. There was never even a hint that using software like eqwindows to run more than 1 client on the same computer was against the rules or somehow cheating.

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/75840-multiboxing-everquest-one-player-many-characters/2

According to this article dated Sept 16 2005 Sony removed the 1 client per machine "last year" and was now allowing people to box on the same machine. DoDH came out Sept 13 2005 and OoW came out Sept 14 2004. So somewhere in that "last year" or between OoW and DoDH is when the OG Truebox was dropped. Sounds like it's "classic" and "in era" to drop Truebox by DODH at the latest since that is in line with the original timeline and when the devs felt it needed.

Whether it was a technical limitation or intentional I suppose could be debated, but if the client was locked into Fullscreen and 3rd party software was required (even if it was tolerated/allowed) seems to imply somewhat intentional but I'm not super familiar software architecture from that era so maybe fullscreen lock was more of a technical limit.

Didn't even technically require software to do what EQW did, it just made it idiot proof - you could force anything into Windowed mode in the OS - it was just a giant pain in the to do so - and hardware for the most part couldn't handle it well yet, so it ran like dog feces. EQW just made it practical, but it had existed as a "thing" since around PoP if not earlier. (Friend had taught me all the ins and outs of the OS method to box them for a few flagging events they were going to miss in PoP)

I was using it by Velious, and I'm sure it existed before then.

I'd believe that, honestly with how it functioned on the OS level I'd imagine it was possible even in original 640x480 small panel view mode - but didn't learn it till later.

No one is going to pay 15 bucks a month to be a second class citizen. In the end, there's only going to be boxers and free accounts, because subbing a single account doesn't get you enough in return. Yes, gold accounts get auto grant and better mercs, but none of that matters if you can't find a group.

If on a new server, not even two weeks old, and it's taking you several hours to find a camp, because boxers have monopolized all the good leveling spots, then the message is clear, if you aren't boxing, if you aren't raiding, you're outta luck, a bottom feeder.

You are correct there was a difference at the start, Ragefire was going to be the "quick" server with 3 months per expansion and Lockjaw was going to be the "slow" one with 6 months per expansion, but that only lasted one or two expansions before everyone on Lockjaw was wanting to get it sped up so dev's changed it to match the ragefire speed.

This is not correct. Both Ragefire and Lockjaw were voting servers.

Ragefire still is a voting server. Prior to GoD the vote period was 180 days, GoD+ they dropped it to 90.