Now would be the perfect time to add that Zerker to my box set simply because I've never played one, meaning I'll be unaffected by nerf, and thus think they're still UP. Win win for everyone! Haha
To respond about rogues versus Zerkers, since I don't play those other classes you mentioned. Bottom line is its tough all over, guy. 1) AE Mezz: Slow refresh. Level 105 or under. Its a plan B or C if anything. You as a rogue are not going to give a chanter or bard, or even an AE snare/root class a run for their money. Next to worthless for raids. Wait, it IS worthless for raids, unless you want to piss the real CC people off. This with traps and throwing means you CAN pull, but its not as fast or efficient as a bard, monk or even someone who can just pacify stuff.... 2) Succor: Its nice to a degree, but a rogue also can't use a mount while SoS and the refresh is long so it all kinda evens out from a practical standpoint. Really is =/= than other classes than can succor. Also next to worthless for raids. 3) Illusions: Whoopity doo. So a rogue might actually have to click off an illusion buff from time to time compared to others. Otherwise any class can do this. Enough said. Raids/grouping can be more interesting/fun due to this, but not from any practical standpoint. 4) Pick locks: Thanks to TLP servers and other retro stuff, including the HCH Sebilis, this actually sort of means something...but not much. Before TLP...this skill was boobs on a bull degree of useful. 5) Traps: Again, this is a plan B or C...in group content. 6) SoS2: Its a nice skill, but no mounts. You can be safe or fast. Pick 1. 7) Evade-Escape/Breather: Again, sometimes you get stuck having to pick one or the other. Its easy to hit Escape/Breather combo when low on Endo and then when something is pounding on you, guess what has not refreshed yet? Better hope you have CR up, or click your Myro helm or whatever...in time. 8) Full burn every 10 minutes: Don't think rogues have a monopoly on that.Just don't be dead or out of endo. 9) Things you conveniently did not mention: Rogues are horribly ADPS dependent to reach full potential AND you are reliant on a tradeskill item, mainly poisons, to also reach full potential. Most of the best poisons involved farming zones that are not even actively played in anymore. Zerkers really just have to show up, not die and mash the right buttons...and top parse.
Just didn't want to keep you out of the loop, but you can SoS while you're casting your mount, as well as spells like Throne of Heroes or Gate if need be. Now you know
Thanks. That alone makes rogues 10 million times better than zerks now, right? I am used to just hitting my Gyrospire insto-cast port device, and then Throning. Or using a mage door...since I have a mage alt. Anyway, learn something new every day.
While most of what you said was fine, these are two are just ridiculous. Zerkers' Furious/Focused is a 20min recast, so no we dont have 10min recast on full burn. Only Rogues enjoy that fast of a recast on their "rampage" line; Monks are in the middle at 15min. And Zerkers are by far more dependent on adps than either Monk or Rogue for several reasons. Mainly because your dps isnt as much autoattack and more Backstab/Flying Kick respectively compared to Frenzy, but also because both Rogue/Monk can proc HHE at the same value as Ruaabri's Fury/Dicho Fury (Zerker self HHE proc is less than half that value, well ~37% so closer to a third really....)
Deleted all, only quoting cause the forums are weird. Due to stuff (downtime), I havn't gotten an opinion from raid zerkers. How much is it hurting?
Personally, I never had a problem with Zerker being OP. And no, I have never played one. Figured that is what they were meant to do, smack the heck out of something and bring it down quickly.
All zerkers are going to take a hit, how much is hard to say as it will be spread across the board because not all zerkers are equal. Instead of hitting disconcerting and going through your rotation repeatedly, you are now going to have to cycle Brutal, FR, Cleaving A. and I forget the 4th one. Tonight will be my first raid night, and it will be interesting to see how much emotes screw up my burns when I have to un-root myself and force the disc to die early. I'd love to hear some rationale from a dev on the change.. I don't understand how a 75% reduction on a in era disc. occurs, ultimately making the thing useless.
ya a little feedback from the desk jockey that came up with this nerf would be very valuable , would love to hear how they came to the conclusion of making this disc not usable at all , and how they so quickly were able to take the top dps spot down to a possible number 4 in raid setting without balancing with any form of survivability / utility to compensate , and dont give me the good zerkers will still top charts crap , because it simply will not be possible given the hoop jumping well have to go through to actually finish a disc to its fruition on movement intensive fights..... the lack of transparency in the decision making process in regards to what a zerkers roll is now suppose to be would be fantastic , since as it stands we are a monk without the survivability or FD .....or pulling power.
That fine. Glad you think having to make poisons is ridiculous, too . You still parse way higher than me (just by the virtue of who you are and what guild you are in) even on your worst day so whats the problem? If its just to debate semantics than great. I get it. If I have a point, its that the grass is not greener based upon examples put forth by some other posters. Its been brought up MANY times that rogues can do X or Monks can do Y. What is conveniently left out is the revelation that most of the metrics where comparisons are made for the sake of the argument that Zerkers absolutely MUST be tops are generated where the trade offs for rogues or monks or wizards or etc are not even put to reasonable use. IE: Current raids. Or that wizards should be second by virtue of they can cast mass teleport to bind at the end of the night? Laying the "Utility" card on the table is only valid when the playing field allows those utility traits to shine or even have some justification. Now most of us get it. That these other classes can do these other things on a big picture basis and that's fine. Just don't use them as validation for what YOU do. Mainly because nerf or not...and nerfs suck so don't get anyone wrong here, you are still going to do what is perceived to be the class defining role. That is to make a bunch of dps and nothing else. You still get to do that as well in comparison to everyone else,as the better players of your class will just shrug this off. This nerf was probably one that most players of your class knew was coming. Disconcerting was too easy and too cheap. Money for nothing and chicks for free. As usual though, it comes late in the cycle of the expac and leaves the usual bitter taste of when will the devs ever really learn? TL;DR answer to that is of course: Never.
Knew it was coming, yes. Knew it would make disconcerting no longer viable, no. Utility aside, I just don't understand the logic in making the disc irrelevant. Aren't there better ways to nerf the class?
Have there ever been? Can you name any one particular time when someone has honestly said" "Thanks for nerfing me. I really appreciate that." Usually the reality is that said members of OP class tend to just clam up, let it ride and hope the bar tab is not too hefty when the party ends.
Obviously no one is going to be happy about a nerf, but jesus, at least allow the disc to still be relevant. What is the rationale behind dropping the effectiveness by 75%?
the fact that we have been thrown back into old era discs that have always been lack luster in some way or another and are now expected to remain competitive to the other dps classes is a bit silly . this ONE DISC was overpowered yes ... almost stupidly so , but this ONE DISC also made us able to compete and beat the other classes , so instead of fine tuning this disc with a scalpel to bring us down a notch and make it possible for the other high dps classes to beat us , they took a shotgun to it and made it almost not worth hot keying , i only say almost not worth hot keying because we really dont have a whole lot of burns available to us that would put us where we need to be to come close to what the other classes will be able to sustain. for a pure melee dps class that has no utilty other then its output for the raid / group , no class specific raid wide buff that no one else in the game can bring to the raid , some of the crapiest survivability of the melee dps classes . . . i think its just time for the devs that made the decision to make the class not viable for what its purpose should be to explain why they have completely gutted the one ability that gave us a chance , instead of just nerfing it a bit to get more in line ... its bad enough they destroyed the dmg output effect of it , but to add salt to the wound they doubled its cooldown... pls dev's answer this call and explain the thought process and what you had hoped to achieve in this heavy handed nerf , because as it stands your goal was to take the top raid dps class in game and make them unwanted in even basic group content.
They wanted to make sure it was never a burn disc. Devs said they wanted it to be an option for sustained.
I don't play a zerker, but as far as I can see the disc still does "something". And if still does something, wouldn't it still be worth using?
anyone looking at the current form of this disc that can say this is an option for sustainable dps increase is deluded . its bad enough they destroyed the dmg portion of the disc effect , but to then go and double its cooldown versus its uptime ...... what is the logic here.
the real kicker is that this disc was the only eok era disc we had , so now were back to relying on old era discs to compete with the other classes , without any eok burns worth using <--sad panda
