Berserkers and Beastlords available at launch..... Now what?

I'm sure lots of people have had this idea, and I'm curious if any theory crafting has been done? Would these two classes be overpowered at all if given all gear and spell levels that could be available at current era? How would they preform in raid settings (Vox, Naggy, Trak, Avatar of War)

beastlords would rip aggro off of every single warrior if they even attempted to dps at all. they definitely won't be able to cast savagery since it only drops in the deep it won't be on any vendors. they would be a pretty useless raid class, but would be strong in groups.

The debate has been had in multiple recent threads so I'm not sure why you needed yet another one.

And no, they would not be overpowered, and yes they would have to wait longer than the original classes to start their epic 1.0 unless those quests were adapted/altered which they almost certainly would not be.

The main reason people would like it is so that they could start with their friends and guildies right at the launch rather than having to start later on, having either missed out on enjoying significant amounts of content with their friends or having done so whilst playing a class they didn't want to have to.
Also not having to start later on & play catch up across classic+2 expansions for BST & even more for BER they also have a much tougher time as there will be few if any groups to level up/catch up with, meaning they either box or get a powerlevel.

From my own personal experience I did that on live when BER were originally launched, and I did it on TLP when Phinigel launched, it sucked, a lot and I will never do that again.

I think ber would be pretty bad in classic and maybe only a little better in kunark. 2h ratios are really bad in classic, but get a bigger upgrade from classic to kunark than 1h weapons do for other classes. Plus some good combat abilities to hopefully help.

Bst I think would be great in classic. Strong pet+proc with no stun on top of sk tanks means agro is no issue in classic. Pretty good weapons to choose from and a strong cold nuke given the rest of the dps. Kunark is when you start to become more support like when you normally start out in luclin. But some strong proc weapons from vp could do pretty nice dps.

In velious both can start to get a full arsenal of raid gear just like any other class. Although I still think ber dps will be lower than rog/monk til omens. 2h just don’t seem stand up to 1h. Would be very interesting to see tho

I started on Aradune as a wizard and moved to a Berserker in GoD. My guild helped me transition so nicely, I was able to get gear and AAs quickly!! That being said it was still a humongous pain in the butt!

I've raided TLPs launch to DoDh twice, and at times I always thought about all the raids loot that rotted or went to alts because no one really had a use for it. I remember when BL and Zerk gear was dropping in Fear and in Kunark zones, as well as spells.

Watching all the SKs Pallys and Wars get all these cool 2handers (Soul Leech, Blackstone Maul, Abashi's and the one from Tunare) for crazy cheap dkp.

I just always thought it would be a fun idea to have these classes in at start

The only way these classes become “viable” in a classic start is with a non-classic start to support them - which defeats the purpose of most classic start TLP scenarios.

Now if classic was just restricted to Level 50 and all zones tagged as 50 or lower in some classic / live hybrid… that’s a different animal and a reason to expand classes and races available at launch. However, that in concept never seems to get much traction (and probably for good reason). The power flex from later expansions with “level appropriate zones” makes actual classic content less than desirable to spend time in. The lack of alternative level 50 - 60 “raids” from newer expansion content is underwhelming to absent.

But there are cases to be made that more than one expansion provided “starter” content zones from which to experience the game that often are ignored on Live and TLP because the level caps from those expansions and the server populations don’t force anyone to congregate in those zones.

Make the two classes semi-heroic on TLPs, so that players can create a BST or Zerker at an appropriate level with regards to content, along with a decent set of gear so that they don't have to play a ton of catch up.

That's an interesting compromise solution I have never seen suggested previously, I'd expect these to be free rather than paid for options, as the following templates perhaps:

BST created in full Velious group-level gear at level 60 with no AA

BER created as a PoP-Group-geared level 65 with at least all pre-PoP AA and a good chunk of PoP AA.

The downside is they'd still be missing all the prior raid flags, keys etc, and the player has not had the opportunity to play as their BST/BER with friends through those earlier expansions - but your suggestion does at least reduce the catch-up slog a good margin & get them in a position they can actually join groups without being a complete waste of a slot.

If a TLP had this in place but not the BST/BER in at launch I might give it serious consideration, I might still choose to say nah but I would have to think about it at least.

You could also go a step further and once luclin launches, every toon started is a "mini-heroic." Maybe 5-10 levels below the cap, and keep that going throughout the TLP. Many people come to the forums asking what tlp to join and "where they can catch up" and this would be a way to start fresh and not have such a huge mountain to climb.

Luclin - Level 55 - Velious group gear, 0AA
Pop - 60 - Luclin group, 50 AA to spend
GoD - 60 - Pop group, 75 AA to spend
Omens - 65 - GoD group - 100 AA to spend
DoDH - 65 - Omens group gear - Luclin autogrant + 120 to spend
PoR - 70 - DoDh group gear - Luclin auto + 120
Tss - 70 - PoR group - Pop auto + 140
...
...

You guys get the picture.

That would be really helpful for anyone who comes back to the game, as well as anyone took an extended break after server launches. It could also work on existing TLPs, if they wanted to add it. +1 idea

I've seen a "multiple Heroics" type of idea suggested before, the big downside of doing that many is all of the templates needed for it, while they do these for beta I am not sure the dev team keep a "record" of how each one was set up during the beta test.

So while your Corvo's original idea works, extending it further probably does not.

The other thing to consider is you don't want to make it too easy to just disappear for months on end when they can come back at any point & painlessly catch up - there's a balance to be struck here between catching players up who have genuinely been away a while and those who would just abuse it and the guilds who help them - I have met plenty of players who would play just for the winter then expect their guildies to help them catch back up each year when they came back from whatever else they did for the remainder of the year.

You can hop onto any live server and see how a zerker or beastlord fares against other classes in classic era content with classic era gear. My bet would be zerker'd be kind of meh and beastlord would be really good in group and raid content with their pets, pet damage procs, and pet heals. Probably to the point where they'd really want to restrict access to their full 1-50 spell lineup until Luclin. Or not, not like classic era TLPs have ever been balanced.

I absolutely feel that you do want this on a TLP. Mischief having free trade plus an abundance of loot as the ultimate catch up mechanics have definitely seemed like the reason it is still so popular. I watched so many people come back into the guild and say “hey I quit around luclin anyone able to help,” and with the snap of a finger they would be outfitted in some omens gear or something that can help you contribute to current content much more than before.

I didn’t think about all the different templates tho that is a good point. The easier catch up mechanic is of course just free trade then

"Catching up" is a money-maker for the company. On Live servers they sell the Heroic characters, and on TLPs they happily bank the Krono sales to people who want to flip them for a PL. I don't see them taking away a revenue source and giving it back for free. As for the so-called cyclical players, I've seen that myself a lot on Live, but I don't have a gauge for how prevalent that is on a TLP. I tend to take the view that if a player abuses the privilege, that's at least somewhat on guild leadership for not vetting properly. I would expect a returning player to meet a few stated goals via solo play before being re-admitted to a guild, to demonstrate some level of commitment.

Love the concept here. I definitely wouldn't want to see it be free. No one, and I mean no one, deserves an instant fero/paragon box. No guild would ever want a main beastlord. There needs to be some requirements. $10 DBC or 3 months consecutive active membership + a level 60 character on the account already for that server. $10 still pretty cheap for a fero/paragon box.

I don't think that's as big a problem as you think, potions already undermine part of that buff itinerary & carting a bst box around just for fero & paragon would be a waste when it's a decent full-time box anyway.

I would love an all/all every class every race combo unlock. When thinking about BST, Mage still has the strongest pet line and theyre weaker than Monk overall. If they spammed spells, you could probably see some threat issues but wouldn't be that bad.

BER would be fine, considering how underwhelming Rogue and Ranger is early on. They actually get more support since theyre modern. It would be pretty fun to mess around with Frenzy and Earthshaker or chill with a Mithril 2H. I would def play it.

Earthshaker has long been nerfed into utter uselessness.