Berserker vs Rogue for 2box?

Discussion in 'Melee' started by Malkavius, Jan 19, 2022.

  1. Malkavius Augur

    So I know it might not be "optimal" but I want to box one of these with my war. I'm dead set on just 2 boxxing and I enjoy wars and melee dps. Mostly I'm just curious what do these classes both offer while leveling? 99.9% of the info people seem to suggest about them is all endgame.
  2. minimind The Village Idiot

    Don't worry about "optimal". Look for fun and useful for what you plan to do.

    Also, while I'm one of the first people to say, "Well berserkers are the best. Make a berserker," I acknowledge that you'll be 2-boxing a warrior, so utility must be a consideration.

    Berserkers are pretty simple to understand. They hit hard and if sufficiently geared/AA'd can take a couple punches. They require fewer weapons (can only use 2hb, 2hs, and 2hp), so that's a plus. They snare from an early level and can insta-stun as well. When I was leveling as a berserker back in the day, I know I saved many a tank from death with well-placed stuns. You get an innate ability called "Frenzy" early on and it becomes your first "spam" ability. It works like kick, bash, and the like. It does pretty weak damage until you start putting AAs into it.

    Rogues can do a couple things that berserkers can't-- SoS and poisoncrafting. Choose a gnome rogue and you get tinkering as well. The hide/sneak/SoS type of invis is really useful when dragging corpses or hunting for collectibles (a notable source of AAs in the future). Rogues can also make a bunch of poisons (for their use only) that add more utility, but I don't know a rogue that uses anything but max DPS poisons.
  3. Malkavius Augur

    I know generally how they work I've played both rogues and berserkers up to 70s years ago. I was mostly wondering how their dps and what little utility they have would benefit a 2 box. Like what's the actual difference in dps while leveling? Which one can back up the war best? I play on FV so raid gear is a given at most levels. While rogue poison is great the spiders bite and scorpions agony are a pain in the to farm mats while leveling. And typically people only sell the mats for the 100+ level range. Though slow poisons might be useful.

    Are rogues still reliant on being behind targets 100% of the time? Chaotic stab was always meh, so maybe they improved it.
  4. Szilent Augur

    berserkers are good adps for the warrior, rogues are not.

    rogues being sneaky sneakers has occasional utility.

    Assassinate can be incredible - if you seek content that accommodates that.
    minimind likes this.
  5. Malkavius Augur

    I don't value the SoS tooo much due to warrior not having it as well so limited. Isn't Assasinate just a decapitation with less options?
  6. Symbius Augur

    Decap is hot garbage. Couldn't tell you if it just doesn't fire well or if the damage is low, but it's bad.

    Assassinate is very very nice, works extremely well. Especially since the new expansion has mostly Headshot/Assasinate mobs.
    Szilent likes this.
  7. minimind The Village Idiot

    Decap fires on many more mobs. Assassinate hits for MUCH higher damage.
    Winnowyl and Szilent like this.
  8. Malkavius Augur

    I thought all 3 skills were given the same base chance to proc a few years ago?
  9. Malkavius Augur

    How much ADPS for the war we talkin here? Significant amount to choose over rogue outright?

    Also I notice berserkers seem to be the shadowknights of DPS on live servers. In that there are tons of them at all times. Usually 2-4 times more on than any other melee. Can't tell if that's due to their dps for groups or most are raid bers.
  10. minimind The Village Idiot

    Zerks affect melee crits and no one crits more than zerks and warriors.

    Cry Havoc (BER/68)
    Endurance: 200
    Target: Group, MGB
    AE Range: 100'
    Duration: 60s+ (10 ticks)
    Recast: 1.5s
    1: Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 100%

    Bloodlust Aura (BER/70)
    Target: Group
    7: Increase Critical Hit Damage by 30% of Base Damage

    And later, our passive AAs make us proc a group buff that makes group members hit with Crippling Blows.
    Szilent likes this.
  11. Filter Augur

    I play a war alt but my main is a zerker. Wars are extremely simple to box so it allows me to focus more time on the zerk. As stated above the adps from the zerker is good. If my war goes down, the zerker can take over using some tools to finish up the mobs to get the war rezzed. Zerker dps used to be top but now rogs are coming over the top especially on an exp grind/named camping/progression night. Zerkers still hold their own dps wise but you can see the difference with equally geared/AA'd toons.

    I went through TBL and ToV with the war/zerker duo until I wanted to move forward with a bigger crew (war/zerk/zerk/bard/sham) and make my life even easier with progression.

    You won't go wrong with either but zerker brings you more. By the way, wars have snare as well.
    minimind likes this.
  12. Derresh Augur

    Rogue is the better choice in current live eq
    Fenthen likes this.
  13. Tucoh Augur

    Rogue is really good right now because of assassinate being A+++++ against ToL mobs. This may give it the edge over berserkers' adps contribution to the warrior. However, assassinate may not be as strong in future expansions, whereas berserkers adps probably won't change.

    I'd recommend a berserker, but you'll be fine with a rogue.
    Fenthen, Winnowyl and Szilent like this.
  14. Sup Rog Elder

    I think rogues have a lot less button pushing to get decent dps. Assassinate is really good, when you can use it. You know it will be good for a least 2 more years, as the next expansion won't be a level raising one and you could exp on the same mobs as now. I tried a zerker, but just couldn't get good dps out if it, boxing it. It was my fault I'm sure, but my rogue/ranger combo is pretty sweet now. I think the bot box guys use a few zerkers for the alliance procs too.
  15. Tucoh Augur

    I ran a three berserker group for a bit, the alliance procs were unreliable and modest even when the alliance fulminated.
    Cadira likes this.
  16. Stabbyman New Member

    In terms of leveling, the Berserker will put out extraordinary DPS for all post 85 levels. Too long ago for me to speak with any accuracy in the levels below 85. You can set up your hot keys to that you don't have to do a ton of button pushing. The Berserker is very, very focused. It's a fun class.

    Enough said. Let me talk rogues, which I know a bit more about. Most of the time, the rogue is not going to beat the Berserker in terms of DPS as you progress through the levels. Rogues will often get close, but it's really this latest expansion where with assassinate rogues are doing insane DPS. Rogues and Rangers will often be at the top of group parses IME when they can assassinate/headshot. And frankly, also when they can't, but there is more dps competition if you can't assassinate.

    But you also asked what the classes offer while leveling. A rogue adds something in terms of utility that a warrior and berserker don't really have. Rogues are a pulling class. You can split, mez, single, and back out of combat it it's going bad. A rogue's SOS means he can wander through zones and dungeons and see where mobs are and pick up collects on the way. If you die, the corpse can recover the corpse easy enough and then rez with his pocket cleric. If you're going to go just warrior and 1 melee, I think rogue is by far your best bet, because rogue DPS doesn't suck in any of the post 85 levels and your leveling experience will be more complete in that just the warrior and rogue with pocket cleric(s)/melee can legitimately pull mobs and work quests and missions to a reasonable extent. The berserker brings a bit more dps to the table, but if you're just doing two classes, I think the rogue brings more utility.

    Now, if you're willing to add a third bard box, then berserker becomes a more attractive option. Bards are very easy to box. Hit an attack social and start your melody. Then start your zerker attacking and go back to warrior.

    As for rogues, they are stupidly easy to box. Grab aggro on warrior and then set rogue behind mob, hit attack (do a social so it auto targets xtar 1and attack), hit one key to trigger all your mash buttons (rogue mash buttons tend to be instant /disc or AAs, so you can bind all of them to one key and they all trigger. Then set up a burn rotation and you hit one key to start burning.

    Go back to warrior. Tab to rogue after a bit (or don't) and hit the mash button again and start up the next disc. You will be doing very good DPS, hitting 3 buttons, and if you don't feel like tabbing over, the rogue will keep putting out solid DPS in any event.

    I do necro / rogue and I love the combination. Very, very easy to box and can basically escape from anything if it goes bad.

    Good luck. Have fun.
    Sup Rog likes this.
  17. Fenthen Living rent free in your headspace

    Rogues are easily doubling Berzerker DPS. As such, the aDPS doesn't matter when rogues are parsing 1.4-1.8m DPS over a long period of time, and zerks are parsing 600-800k.
  18. Shriek New Member

    On humanoid mobs only.
  19. Fenthen Living rent free in your headspace

    So like 75-90% of ToL.
  20. Symbius Augur

    Eh, they're beating them rather soundly on everything these days. The gap is just a bit closer on non-humanoids, instead of doubling them up.

    Rogue is the prime cut steak of melee DPS these days in all situations.